Top 10 Arguments That Can’t Be Won

409

Since the time of fire, man has had arguments – rare or well done? Of course, arguments depend on your point of view, or in the case of husbands and wives, what the wife thinks. Some arguments are never-ending. Over the centuries, there have been some doozies that have kept philosophy students and teachers debating.

To be included on this list of Arguments That Can’t Be Won, the argument must have no clear answer that cannot be countered with another opposing view.

Disclaimer: TopTenz.net is in no way trying to lead you to think in one way or another. We are only trying to present the arguments in a meaningful context.

Evolution or Creation?

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Theologists and scientists have been arguing this one for centuries as well. The argument goes back to the time when organized religion was almost as powerful as the monarchies ruling countries. When people starting postulating that the Earth was not the center of the universe, it gave way to the rise in questioning the idea of a seven-day creation and God’s role in creating the Earth. Enter Darwin and his Theory of Evolution and the debate truly kicks off with an unholy fevered pitch. Add in that there are many stories of creation across many different religions and your brain can really start to hurt.

Nature vs. Nurture

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Does how you are raised affect your views as an adult more than what your genetic codes dictate? If your family has always been carpenters, are you destined to be a carpenter because of your genes or because of your familial upbringing? When identical twins are separated at birth and grow up to have identical tastes is that an argument that it has more to do with nature than nurture? However, is it nature to love spicy food, when that’s all that your family and friends eat?

Gun control

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It’s not guns that kill people, it’s the bullets. In America, citizens have a right to bear arms, which has proven to be dangerous for many other citizens and police over the centuries since the country’s birth. On the other hand, large portions of the gun-toting population are careful citizens who have never crossed the law. Why should one group’s rights to bear arms be stripped away because another group feels unsafe? Or why should they be allowed to bear those weapons of death among a land of peaceful citizens?

Euthanasia

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Dr. Kevorkian helped many people commit suicide due to their health conditions and their desires. His motives were questioned because all life is supposedly precious, but his patients wanted to move on from their frail existence. What if those patients didn’t have a say and we had the opportunity to choose whether they live in agony or die in peace by not giving them medication or a procedure? What is the better option?


The Death Penalty

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Centuries ago, the prevalent rule of thumb was an eye for an eye, or in some cases, a life for a life. So the question becomes have we advanced far enough in our social and political structures to ban the death penalty? Or when is the death penalty justifiable? Is the death penalty appropriate for an accidental homicide? How about for a mass murderer?

Abortion or Pro-life?

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Does a woman have the right to control her body by ending a life inside her? When is a fetus truly alive? Is all life truly precious? What happens when a woman is raped and becomes pregnant – is that life still precious? There may never be answers to these questions; however, the government has helped us out many times by entering its own opinion whether the pro-lifers like it or not.

Free will or Destiny?

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The free will or destiny argument stems back to the Christian doctrine that God is omniscient and has seen everything that will happen. So if God can see everything that happens, is it free will or destiny that makes you choose to continue reading? Some have argued that God knows you will read this but you still have a choice. However, if the path is already apparent to one being, then the path has already been decided for you. However, that directly contradicts our everyday actions where we constantly make decisions – is something, a destiny foreseen by God, guiding us or are we truly free of the strictures of destiny?

Morals – Relative or Universal?

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Like the question of gun control, whether ethics being morally relative or universal comes down to whether the good of the one outweighs the good of the many. If it is fine to sleep with another man’s wife in one society but not in another, then the problem is that the morals are relative to the society or person. But why wouldn’t it be universal that it is wrong to sleep with another man’s wife or woman’s husband in any society? Why is it OK to speed, when it is breaking the law? Shouldn’t breaking any law be just as wrong? If you would never steal a person’s purse, why would you pirate a DVD?

The chicken or the egg?

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Perhaps one of the most fun arguments on this list, the chicken or the egg debate has raged for centuries mainly because it asks the questions does the animal evolve and then reproduce or was it hatched? That debate can then be transferred to our own existence, which leads into the argument of Evolution or Creation.

Does God Exist?

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Since the dawn of recorded time, there have been people trying to prove that there is a higher being or beings that have caused the worlds and its creation. Organized religion comes down to having faith that there is a higher being and a place to go after death. Most people, if not already deeply religious in their life, find religion and start believing as they near their twilight years because they want to believe there is somewhere to go and someone to be with. So the question is how do you prove that god, in which ever religion you believe, exists?


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409 Comments

  1. I remember when a member of the royal family of my country said in the news: "The speed limit on the road needs to be higher. When we drive faster, we are not that long on the road so we have less chance on a car accident."

  2. bermudadude123 on

    yo dudes and dudets, you all just gotta chill out cause ur all gettin worked up over nothin. everyone has a right to beleive what they wanna and no one wants to be judged on what they beleive.

  3. Massive facepalm to all of you who have been posting your opinions as "fact" and proven and to everyone who continues to debate in a topic that is:

    Arguments that can't be won.

    you many think your opinion of evolution or abortion or one of the others has been proven but then so do people on the other side of the argument and that is what is so funny about comments that continue to try and convince on this topic. There are so many EPIC FAILURES in this thread I have to have coke and popcorn and continue to follow the mess.

    it is hilarious :):):):):)

    • I detect a hint of "I disagree, but I cant back up my argument, so Im just going to mock the participants rather than endanger my precious beliefs". M-I-rite?

      • whether we agree or not makes little difference.

        we know we will not convince anyone:

        A. over the internet

        B. especially in this thread.

        C. I have decided it is most fun to observe .

  4. The Egg one can be answered:

    Due to evolution, an animal that wasn't quite a chicken laid an egg one day, with this egg hatching into a chicken. Thus, the chicken egg came first (because what else would you call an egg containing an unborn chicken?)

    Other situations:

    Biblical – Chicken

    Dictionary – Chicken

    Eggs in General – Egg

    Really, this argument just depends on what situation you are talking about. And if somebody mentions the Evolution Vs. Creationism argument invalidating this, then may as well say that Dinosaur's having existed, or the Earth's true age, or several other arguments can not be won, due to them requiring the E vs C debate to be resolved to be 100% certain

  5. Man, some things on this list are pretty dumb. How about the problem of induction? What consciousness is? What causation is? Philosophical skeptical arguments like Descartes' Dream argument or the Evil Deceiver God?

    This list was redundant. All the moral questions are just sub-problems of the question of "what is morality?" itself. And the religious and cosmological ones are just "Does God exist?" and/or perhaps "Can we know what existence is?"

  6. Funny how man kind confuses religion with belief in god, and science as being absolute, science is the security blanket for man kind so to speak, its not here to establish how things work in life, but to try and help us understand. There is the religiously scientific fool and the scientifically religious fool, two blind men touching an elephant and each describing what they think it is, the religiously scientific man will say that its just a wall, after all he feels a wall-like object with his hand and then scientifically religious man will have many opinion amongst his people and will divide over it. As long as these two mind-sets remain as standard we wont get anywhere, there's so much denial over the scientific community that they look like children, god must surely be ashamed of us, a belief turned into something as low as religion(population control) and science still in pure arrogant ignorance dismissing everything they don't understand as magical nonsense. If the stars themselves aligned and said "God is here" they would say it was just gravity. In other words, they say religion explains everything they don't understand with it being God, and most "scientific minds" dismisses everything that is actual evidence as nonsense, because it has to be evidence within their own established scientific laws, a form of religion. They selfishly want to see god for themselves, if its not the God they want him to be or if they cant find "evidence" that fits their close minded logic then they deny him. Hell they gonna get a huge surprise when the world doesnt end in 2012.

    As if it isn't bad enough that we are a species with amnesia. Makes me wonder sometimes if God regrets having sparked the first raw materials to form life on this planet.

    • so thats why all the religions agree? oh wait… theyre constantly fracturing and splitting due to disagreements.

      and why scientific theories arnt repeatable? oh wait… turn on your car, bam, science. get a glass of milk from the refrigerator, bam, science. turn on the tv, bam, science.

      and "they" who thinks the world is gonna end?

      220 dates for the end of the world
      http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

      • Mayans, Aztecs, Chinese, some religious parties and most scientists believe that the world is likely to end or have a catastrophic event in 2012, even tho the predicted events stated by the bible, Nostradamus, I Ching and so on have come true with alarming accuracy in the past, Including world war 2 by dates and names. If you ask me, I don't really think the world is going to end in 2012, maybe in a few more hundred years when we literally kill the planet. This subject of 2012 is mostly based on different interpretations.

        Now for your first question, in a sense yes, this is because religions that believe in God have different interpretations of the bible, the bible itself is a historic collection of documents written by men and THEIR interpretations of the events that happened. This causes many to ignore the morals and principles that God teaches us. Ironic isn't it?

        For your second question. Sorry in this one I didn't really get the meaning of this one, but I will try to reply to it. If you mean what I think, I don't see how this has anything to do with the existence of God but yea. Scientific theories are just that, theories based on how much research and information you have been able to gather, if you notice there have been a lot of theories in science, scientists used to believe fire was magic, scientists used to believe in vampires, scientists used to think the earth was flat, scientists used to think the earth was the center of our solar system, scientists used to think there were no such thing as alien life, till they found microscopic fossils from frozen rocks in space, scientists used to think there was no such thing as a bio-energetic field on the human body, now they cure deceases with it in china, scientists used to think the universe was static, I could go on forever, it seems that scientific theories are very repeatable, but this is good it is what helps us understand how the universe works, we may never learn everything, but we have to evolve somehow both morally and scientifically, as human beings its what we are.

        To me, God is someone that is with us at all times, weather you believe in him or not, my evidence of the existence of God is creation, science and conscience.

        • No they dont. The mayans flat-out state the world isnt going to end, its just the end of a calendar cycle. Dont you think its funny how everyone was citing THE EXACT SAME THINGS for the world ending in 2000 and that didnt happen either?

          Read my link, thats 220 dates where end of the world predictions failed, people really do have nothing better to do.

          if you have to interpret, that means it really isnt saying what you want it to say.

          fire is magic? if you want to criticize science then at least go with with Phlogiston, but oh wait, its science that says "naw that aint right" and kept on working to figure out chemistry.

          vampires real? an invention of fiction from day one. dont you think its strange that vampires are averse to crosses? yeah, not only is it fiction, but its religious based fiction to trick rubes into thinking that these trivial IDOLS that they WORSHIP have real power.

          flat earth? nah, do a ctrl f on this page for flat earth on this page, some other guy already brought up the fact that thats a urban legend.

          what fossils from outer space?

          esotericism is bull. there no conspiracy to keep it out of western medicine, it just doesnt work. if there was the slightest inkling of anything useful in it, corporations would be launching campaigns to patent what has already existed for thousands of years (like monsanto patenting that mexican bean) or simply blatantly ripping it off.

          yes, we do have to grow morally both individually and as a society: the morals of the abrahamic faith are downright barbaric.

        • The Mayans state nothing, it is how most interpreted it as I already mentioned, we dont know exactly what they were up to. Obviously there have been failed predictions before, I can tell you right now you will win a billion dollars and it would most likely not happen, you also forgot to link to the other predictions that did come true, such as WW2’s Hitler by name and 9/11 just to name two.

          To:”If you have to interpret, that means it really isnt saying what you want it to say.”
          Thats actually incorrect, to interpret means explain the meaning of something with observation. Everybody has to interpret, including in science, its part of our humanity…

          To:fire is magic? if you want to criticize science then at least go with with Phlogiston, but oh wait, its science that says “naw that aint right” and kept on working to figure out chemistry.
          Critizise? Now whose interpreting the wrong way? If you didn’t get the entire meaning of that paragraph, science is a series of judgments, revised without ceasing. -Pierre Emile Duclaux

          To: Vampire comment.
          Obviously its fiction, for what I understand, the idea of vampires started in china, they believed they didn’t bite, but instead absorbed chi(ki energy) energy, also known as life force from humans, even tho this chi absorbing is scientifically possible, I dont know about vampires. Then around the 15th century in Romania, well Transylvania, legends of live stock being found drained of blood lead to legends of vampires, people started to fear them, so religious parties assumed that they were creatures of the night, demons and monsters, so that’s were the cross idea came from. Scientists investigated the bodies, but it sure didnt help when grave robbers stole the body the next day leading them to believe it was true(remember, 15th century). There were however, actual psychopaths that drained the blood of victims, vampirism turned into a sign of power and seduction to some so this as history may have it, encouraged these legends, you can only imagine the amount of deceases those people must have gotten off of that.

          To: Flat earth comment
          Thats actually half true, cultures like Babylon, Ancient Egypt, pre-Classical Greece, pre-Classical India and pre-17th century eastern side of China actually believed the earth was flat.

          To: what fossils from outer space?
          Nasa has found chemical signatures in falling rocks strongly associated with life, this also includes small worm-like micro fossils(1996). Images of these rocks were uploaded back to Nasa, if you want I can look them up, I actually saw it few years ago, looks cool.

          To: esotericism is bull. there no conspiracy to keep it out of western medicine, it just doesnt work.
          I hope you are not referring to the bio-energetic field, because if you are you just proved my point and you need to get up to date with research, Chi Gong associations all over the world laugh at comments like that after thousands of years of research. As evidence you can find people who have been cured of cancer with no quimio or radio therapies, in fact, everything invasive on the human body that is not natural to the body is curable, this is a known fact and it happens on a daily basis. Why is this technology rarely available in the U.S.? If you actually studied this, it would be common knowledge, this science has only recently been introduced to the U.S., it isn’t something everybody can do because it requires a lot of discipline, meditation and comprehensive understanding of the entire human body to learn to use the human brain to manipulate these frequencies. Actually on a personal note, as an apprentice in the subject I would like to one day work in this field, unfortunately given that its so new in the U.S. you would have to get diplomas after studies from schools out in China to work in the U.S., I got a friend who is a Chi Kung master, he earns 5thousand dollars a month and he closed a small cut in my arm in 20 minutes.

          Anyways more information on the subject you can find at National Qigong Association, INTERNATIONAL TAI-CHI-CHUAN & CHI-KUNG ASSOCIATION and QIGONG ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA just to mention 3, yea you can find em online with the caps. Now to actually answer to your sentence there. there wasn’t a moment were I stated there was a conspiracy to keep it out of the U.S., it is simply, to put it bluntly “too difficult” to make chi kung hospitals in the U.S., I can only imagine that, with the life dedication and discipline it would take not many would choose that career path, plus it would render most of modern medicine as we know it literally obsolete since modern medicine only treats symptoms most of the time while damaging the liver and filtering organs with time and have you ever seen those TV commercials? Relieves your headache! side effects may include nausea, diarrhea, upset stomach, dizziness, drowsiness, death, insanity, women who may be or may become pregnant should not take this product or their baby will be born defective or dead(they dont really say this but they warn you of course).

          Of course medicine does its best, their dealing with lives, you have to, but the answer is already there, these companies would just shut down or just wont be giving prescriptions you will have to take for years or the rest of your life. It is basically the same reason why while we have the resources and technology to turn humanity eco-friendly it would just be way too expensive, but we are working on it and hopefully soon it will work out.

          To: Yes, we do have to grow morally both individually and as a society.
          And despite our different opinion this is what we have most in common, which is why we have to learn more about this universe together.

  7. Abla> shame about the format not letting me reply directly, hope you read this.

    Yes, my position is that creationism is only taken from the standpoint of the ignorant: you challenge me to provide examples of things becoming a new "class" (the word you're looking for is species), yet you havnt looked into the matter at all yourself. ring species, banana's, nylonaise, the relation between whales and hippo's, dna differences and similarities in monkies and men, birds and dinosaurs, domesticated breeding of dogs, cats and cattle. As two groups of something, which started from the same common ancestor, but became physically seperated (so they are no longer sharing dna between the two groups), they receive different random mutations and may even but subjected to different natural selection criteria. Once they get to the point that when reintroduced, they are sterile to eachother, then you can safely say that they really are different species. The sun does exist, just because the blanket is over your face isnt compelling evidence that it isnt morning; wake up and get to work. I want you to tell me why people *think* all of these things make a pretty solid case for evolution, then tell me why theyre wrong, then maybe we can start having an interesting conversation.

    you like to throw around the " marks, but have you looked into those quotations? Chandra Wickramasinghe and Fred Hoyle; all they seem to have is an opinion. Theres no figures given in support of their assertions of probability and they freely concede that he has no evidence for their own life came to earth from meteor's hypothesis, if thats good enough for you, then I assert that I own the golden gate bridge and you can buy it from me for a bargain 🙂

    Lets be clear about something; evolution is how life changes once it already exists, abiogenesis deals with how life started.

    Watch this: The Origin of Life – Abiogenesis
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

    also do a control f and take a look at all the other links Ive posted on this thread

    • By simply repeating that something is a fact, does not make it a reality. In crucial areas where the theory of evolution can be tested, it has failed. The fossil record reveals a pattern of evolutionary giant leaps rather than gradual change…. and dont throw your Punctuated Equilibrium theory here cuz you know THAT is precisely the opposite of what has been accepted for decades. In reality, for those whose ears are open to hear, the fossil record is saying, "Special Creation."

      Why is that? A common ancestor… cmon… how can every living thing come from a common ancestor?!! Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to PREVENT new forms from evolving. Lets look at it closer… it has been taught that, in very broad terms, fish became amphibians, some amphibians became reptiles, mammals and birds came from reptiles and mammals eventually became men. I still request proof of any this nonsense… First, how can fish become amphibians? The spine or backbone would have to had undergone major changes for the fish to become amphibious. An added a pelvis, per say… but there are no known fish fossils that show how a pelvis developed on amphibians. Additionally, amphibian evolution requires that the fins of fish become jointed limbs that have wrists and toes, along with many changes in the muscles and nerves. The gills would have to become lungs. Oh, and fish blood is pumped by a two-chambered heart, but in amphibians by a three-chambered heart… now THATS A LOT of explaining to do which is usually given by a "oh, it just happened over very long periods of time. And this is a fact because science says so even though we have no supporting evidence" … Second, from amphibian to reptile: Solve me this riddle… the mere fact of how eggs are fertilized is troublesome for scientists trying to link the two species. Why? Well, we all know that eggs in amphibians are fertilized EXTERNALLY. While eggs in reptiles are fertilized INTERNALLY. This is not too complicated if you can prove how the new and completely different sexual organs appeared, how animals developed new instincts and mating procedures…I get it! same explanation lacking evidence. Or from reptile to bird: Oops… yet another unsolved mystery… why is it that reptiles are cold blooded while birds are warm blooded? Oh, because some dinosaurs where warm blooded? I could have sworn Robert Jastrow proved that "all dinosaurs, like all reptiles, were cold blooded"… or is that in disagreement with science… I thought science was in agreement?? And we can go on and on with "oceans" that science has not been able to cross…like the one between animals and you. Your brain separates you from any other creature in the world… abstract thought, speech, and the ability to accumulate knowledge… all very noticeable differences I would say. What about moral and even spiritual values or love, justice, wisdom, mercy…how did all of these qualities evolve? Fill me in when science finds a satisfactory answer… But here it is in case anyone wants to know it: Génesis 1:26

      On the other hand, we can use mathematical probability to prove that the story of creation is in Genesis must have come from a source who had knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages: 1st) a beginning, 2nd) a primitive earth in darkness, wrapped in heavy gases and water, 3rd) light 4th) an expansion or atmosphere, 5th) large areas of dry land, 6th ) plants; 7th) the sun, moon and stars noticeable in the expansion, and the beginning of the seasons; 8) sea monsters (dinosaurs) and flying creatures 9) wild and domestic animals, mammals, 10) man. Science agrees that these stages presented are in this general order. How likely is it that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you chose numbers 1 thru 10 out of a box and randomly got them in consecutive order. The likelihood of doing this in the first attempt is about 1 in 3,628,800! Therefore, it is unrealistic to say that the writer simply listed by chance the correct order of events mentioned above without getting the data from some source.

      However, evolutionary theory leaves no room for the concept of a Creator who was there, knew the facts and could reveal them to humans. Instead, it attributes the birth of life on Earth to the spontaneous generation of living organisms from inanimate chemicals… something I still want PROOF of…

      • ignorant people like you are the reason i no longer try to argue on here. you only see what you want to see and use half truths and lies to prove your point. Then you refuse to believe people when they point out that you don't know what you're talking about, because it doesn't fit into your blind faith in your religion.

        All i can say is look up your "facts" before you post them as true

      • Thats your whole argument, that YOU dont know? Asserting that there is "no proof" aint gonna win me over when Ive been demonstrating proof up and down this thread, do a ctrl-f man, I got loads of links; read them.

        "Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to PREVENT new forms from evolving." Are you claiming mutations dont happen? hear that guys? Abla cured cancer, turned out it never existed in the first place, who knew?!?!!?

        "First, how can fish become amphibians?"

        lol, walking catfish yo
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S4TA9RfDb8&fe

        and while Im on a roll, one of my favorites, a dog never gave birth to a cat:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0wwhSlo1NI&pl

        and another good one, part 6 of the made easy series; Natural Selection Made Easy
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_RXX7pntr8&fe

        oh and you're a monkey:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz52ivJgVx8&pl

        ken miller on human evolution:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk&pl

        aaaaaand finally comparison between different versions of the bible and reality
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Bibl

        so yeah, not only did they take a blind guess, they took a second blind guess too; pretty fruitless though, speculating instead of finding out.

        • Naaaa!!!! Everyone here is equally wrong and disgusting and equally worthless… like my half and half coffee additive that's gone bad… NO ONE CAN PROVE 100% THEIR OWN BELIEFS! Science has offered proof of evolution the such of which 4realsies has provided.. (1 point for science…yay!). BUT!!!! Where the hell did all come from??!! It had to have been created and this is were God is holdin' you by the nuts! (1 point for God… if there is any… so take that point away from him cuz there is no proof of his existence) By by the same token, science has not been able to create anything tangible out of nothing… in fact they have a law that says this is NOT possible..(take that original point away from science)…Crap has to have been created somehow… no one has the answer with proof, just made up ideas from people with genuine critical thinking skills but as the saying goes: garbage in, garbage out. The fact that there are flaws in both theories shows yall got a crapload of work to do… and ideas to prove….. so get to it! and find me an answer while I go back to not caring

        • man, I hate discussing quantum mechanics, you know the old saying "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you dont understand quantum mechanics", yeah Im confident in alot of things, especially in how I dont know jack about quantum mechanics, but apparently there are some people who do know a lil:

          Wave Function And Wave-Particle Duality
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GTCus7KTb0

        • Sometimes I think quantum mechanics raises more questions than answers, but its a very interesting subject. However I think my I.Q. just dropped.

  8. There has always been the misconception of science vs religion based on this. Hypothetically speaking, when you are questioning Christianity itself accusing of being fake, you are already off track and speaking irrelevant insulting comments when you do not understand it. If creanionism is wrong and you believe that therefor christianity must be fake then it is the same thing as acusing the Germans today of trying to take over the world. But I understand were you are coming from and there is some truth in what you say, religion is after all religion.

    But never confuse religion with faith in God, a scientist can open his mind and heart to believing in a creator, God in this case, embracing beautiful principles, but he doesn't have to abandon reason(why would he have to?), said God would have created science to begin with, which ever way people interpret it then create religions to try to spread this point of view is their problem, not yours, therefor we have no reason to conflict with each other. The fact is that facts exist on evolution, or at least so far what we know, I see no reason why people's faith in God should be as weak as to be based on us having popped on this earth, weather God created us through science or out of nowhere shouldn't really affect faith, and for those who don't have faith, as long as they are doing the right things they shouldn't be criticized as having pessimistic point views, one way or the other we try to evolve, a pretty misguided conflict over these two points of views eventually misguides them both into dismissing each other, creating ignorance when there is so much wisdom involved. Well this is how I see it anyways.

    • ZeSheo > what benefit is there in having an imaginary friend though?

      and to your other post, which the format keeps me from responding to directly:

      No, just no. You say the bible predicted ww2 and 9-11? Fine, you and every other theist saw it coming and you all did nothing to prevent it, murderers. Maybe it isnt a good idea to fib about knowing the future 😉 and yes, there are 3 million mayans alive today, the vast majority will tell you straight up that its nothing but media hype.

      chemical signatures, as in the components of life, but not anything actually living? Sure, thats good evidence that there are plenty of components floating around out there, but it doesnt quite seal the deal on whether there actually is life out there (on mars, on asteroids, etc).

      cancer does go into remission, its better to be honest about when it happens, then to give credit to some random quack product they just happened to be on. you say it isnt common because its hard? doctoring is one of the best paid professions out there, if the guy can perform, consistently, he gets recognition, but as long as he is successful only with the same consistency as random chance, he will be doomed to obscurity.

      • -Its not an imaginary friend, its an entity that created the universe, all that was, is and will be through logic. But I cant tell you that's a fact, after all science doesn't have the power to prove it, don't think anybody does, cant make other people see what you see just because they feel differently, that would just be weird wouldn't it.

        -About the prediction, sorry no, I wasn't clear about that, I don't think the bible predicted that, I think it was this famous astronomer who's name escapes me. Anyways, what?

        "Fine, you and every other theist saw it coming and you all did nothing to prevent it, murderers. "

        -Do you think everybody believes the same thing and has the same opinions just because they believe in God? If you do then you have learned nothing.

        And what ever the ancient Mayans meant I doubt modern Mayans today would have a clue, but who knows maybe some do after all, I'm not Mayan.

        "chemical signatures, as in the components of life, but not anything actually living? Sure, thats good evidence that there are plenty of components floating around out there, but it doesnt quite seal the deal on whether there actually is life out there (on mars, on asteroids, etc)."

        -I know, I tend to quote a lot. At no moment in my input did I mention that just because there are components pointing to life that it means that there is life out there, I informed you of microscopic biological entities fossilized that were presumably once alive, a microscopic single cell organism.

        Random quack product?

        -I don't think you understood this part of my input. I'm talking about a career in Chi Gong. A Chi Gong healer is a doctor, due to the evidence of its superior effects on the body it was just recently accredited in the U.S., I think you can find this actually by looking up Doctor of Oriental medicine, that's how I found it back when I started my research anyways. I made about 4 pages worth of facts and research on this,if you want I can share it with you, I will actually be thankful for your time.

        "You say it isn't common because its hard?"

        -There are many types of doctors, to become a medical doctor isn't easy, but I wasn't talking about the ones you see in hospitals today. A Chi Gong doctor will require a lot more of study and research, it also requires a lot of discipline and patience that most people don't have. Hospitals today are already set on a path, the implementation of new knowledge of the human body is going to take time.

        Like I said if you want me to I can show you my notes on this subject, I'm just doing research, nothing fancy.

        • That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

          Ah, that I disagree with you *I* have "failed to learn"? What a delicious rationalization to how despicable your position is- that you had prior knowledge of 9-11, yet let it happen. Thats an ugly lie and you are a horrible person for stating it.

          More discipline? doctors study for 8 years of grueling work.

        • "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

          Only a fool deals in absolute.

          "Ah, that I disagree with you *I* have “failed to learn”? What a delicious rationalization to how despicable your position is- that you had prior knowledge of 9-11, yet let it happen. Thats an ugly lie and you are a horrible person for stating it."

          Maybe you don't understand the position we are in right now, I don't think you understand what you are typing because to put it bluntly, you are pulling words off your behind. When did I claim to have had knowledge of 9/11 prior to the event actually occurring? If you are not going to understand what you are reading, please read it a second time, or refrain from posting.

          "More discipline? doctors study for 8 years of grueling work."

          Yes and they have to work painful hours every day too, but this is irrelevant to what I meant, Chi Gong would involve rediscovering another part of the human body previously unknown to the western hemisphere, using abilities that the body was naturally designed to be able to do. Don't get me wrong, western doctors do the best they can, and for that I honor and applaud them, specially with all the lives they have saved with the limited knowledge the west has on medicine, medicine only works to some extent, mostly treating symptoms rather than the core of the problem. This causes curable deceases like STDs, Aids and Alzheimer to remain uncured. Chi Gong focuses in the healing and prevention of such deceases.

          Cars were once a mystery to the east just as chi is a mystery to the west, well actually, its not a mystery anymore, its a field of science. The effectiveness of both of these medical sciences are combined in the eastern hemispheres in countries where this is practiced, once the U.S. rediscovers this, with its potential I'm sure millions of lives more will be saved, but so far the only use of chi you see most in the U.S. is acupuncture.

          Bottom line, we have people who are capable of this in the U.S., I'm sure, just look at what we have accomplished so far, but it takes a life time of dedication to actually be a Chi Gong healer.

        • Ok, you're saying its predicted in the bible, yet no one bothered to check till after the fact? Fine, you're lazy then, yeesh. Or the "predictions" are worthless. Its one or the other.

        • No no, not the bible, well not necessarily, the bible has only predicted a few things, most predictions have come from Nostradamus that we know of and a few other philosophers who's names escape me. I guess you got that one right tho they actually started paying attention to such predictions until after they happened.

        • If you do some research you will find that none of the Nostradamus "predictions" were discovered until after the events occurred. it is the same with the bible code. Anyone who is reasonably good at puzzles can find that stuff in any large book.

  9. this is all the secret society ideas (lucifer followers), they want to make os to believe in anything but god, excuse my bad english, :).

    • define god, then prove each of the qualities you assigned him 😉 and no, "because I said so" doesnt count.

  10. the topic is good.. but lake of research..just speak your mind… so lame.. all have answer you know… i know..guest what, question is to be answer not to be ask.. find it.. that will make your live even better.. trust me. try to learn who is god, find the right one.. open your heart. you will know why you keep asking. adios

  11. "More discipline? doctors study for 8 years of grueling work."

    Yes and they have to work painful hours every day too, but this is irrelevant to what I meant, Chi Gong would involve rediscovering another part of the human body previously unknown to the western hemisphere, using abilities that the body was naturally designed to be able to do. Don't get me wrong, western doctors do the best they can, and for that I honor and applaud them, specially with all the lives they have saved with the limited knowledge the west has on medicine, medicine only works to some extent, mostly treating symptoms rather than the core of the problem. This causes curable deceases like STDs, Aids and Alzheimer to remain uncured. Chi Gong focuses in the healing and prevention of such deceases.

    Cars were once a mystery to the east just as chi is a mystery to the west, well actually, its not a mystery anymore, its a field of science. The effectiveness of both of these medical sciences are combined in the eastern hemispheres in countries where this is practiced, once the U.S. rediscovers this, with its potential I'm sure millions of lives more will be saved, but so far the only use of chi you see most in the U.S. is acupuncture.

    Bottom line, we have people who are capable of this in the U.S., I'm sure, just look at what we have accomplished so far, but it takes a life time of dedication to actually be a Chi Gong healer.

  12. @4realsies… Oh now that what I call a jumbo batch of BULL (with the consistency of hot tar… i might add) Although the video is interesting, if you listen closely, it only explains how EXISTING particles behave…"an electron can travel in all directions simultaneously" But where was I when the electron appeared? Fine… it also says that those "particles can appear out of the nothingness of space" I guess that is a disclaimer I can use for my next product "Due to quantum tunneling/waving/etc…, there is an extremely tiny chance that this product may suddenly disappear at any time (and reappear elsewhere). The Manufacturer will not be responsible for such mysterious disappearances" $$$ Thats a money maker right there!!!

    But on a serious note, I don't doubt that wild parties are taking place at an atomic level where electrons and strings are dancing to the macarena while engaging in devious behavior, but it sounds to me scientists don't have an explanation of how the bigger orgy got started… whatever that means….lol Like I said, its a first come first serve basis. The moment I see GOD I will believe in God ("oh but no one can see god and live"…they will say) well then prove his existence. Or, show us an atom 'appearing out of the nothingness of space'… if that's doable, then make two atoms, and then three… till you get enough to make a gun and shoot yourselves…. but that's just my humble opinion 🙂 Have a good day……………………………..I SAY GOOD DAY! lol

    • Tut tut! Cluck cluck! Broo ha ha!

      Like we even have any evidence for anything to have ever been created or cease existing 😛 even with multidimensional vibrations the electron doesnt stop existing, it just stops occupying our petty little 3 dimensional home. Everything always existed, prove me wrong !!!11

      also

      http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&am

  13. In accordance to Evolution vs Creationism – they're both theories, the real fact here is no one here was around way back then so no one can be 100% sure. Science has been proven wrong so many times before. So it isn't exactly 100% accurate so we cannot be 100% sure. The bible isn't a science textbook. But I've read in the Bible that to God 1 day is like a 1000 years, so who is to say that God decided to take His time in creating the earth. Christians don't need to know what happened before Adam and Eve so why put that in the bible. For all we know God spoke one word and the big bang took place. We can't be sure as none of us were there. And I really don't care what happened in the beginning because it does not have anything to do with my ending. There are no eyewitnesses alive today so for as long as there will be life on this planet people will continue to argue about it. I am not about to waste my life focusing on something that really can't be proven accurately. My focus should be on the future and since we're not looking after this earth, there might not be one. so stop focussing on the past, get your lazy butts off your chairs and do something to help this earth now!!!!

    • Welcome to the thread, heres a couple things to think about:

      Difference between the slang use of the word theory and what it means to be a "scientific" thoery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIm2H0ksawg

      Sure, science gets things "wrong", but only in the context that we keep getting incrementally more right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tcOi9a3-B0&fe

      Feynman- on doubt, uncertainty and religion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zi699WzAL0

      "Iâ??ve read in the Bible that to God 1 day is like a 1000 years" no you didnt 😛

      "For all we know" thats the key isnt it? lets stick to what we know. the guys telling tales of the world being on a turtles back, or 6000 years old or the center of the universe arnt doing anything useful.

      "There are no eyewitnesses alive today" who needs an eye witness? your wrecked house is evidence your teenager had a party while you were out for the weekend. The high water mark on the kitchen wall is evidence there was a flood. the giant hole in the ground as evidence of a meteor. sure, its nice to catch your neighbor in the act of stealing your paper, but sometimes you have to figure it out by combining the fact the paperboy doesn't deliver any to his house, yet theyre stacked high in the recycling, then with closer inspection, that theyre addressed to you.

      not only is there evidence for evolution, but that evidence is the forefront of curing diseases: DNA

      ted talks Seth Berkley: HIV and flu — the vaccine strategy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncPtxLCPrE&pl

      "get your lazy butts off your chairs and do something to help this earth now!!!!" something I can agree with out of this thread? impossible 😮

      • @4realsies, Try not to laugh because I know how this sounds, but stay with me here because Im trying to make a point.

        "your wrecked house is evidence your teenager had a party while you were out for the weekend. "

        -Or a burglar probably broke into your house.

        "The high water mark on the kitchen wall is evidence there was a flood."

        -Or It would have been just a leak from the ceiling next to the wall, somebody could have gotten into your house with a hose too.

        "the giant hole in the ground as evidence of a meteor"

        -It could have been drilled, or maybe a small earthquake made a hole on the ground because the structure was weak, or maybe somebody shot the floor open with a bazooka.

        "sure, its nice to catch your neighbor in the act of stealing your paper, but sometimes you have to figure it out by combining the fact the paperboy doesn’t deliver any to his house, yet theyre stacked high in the recycling, then with closer inspection, that theyre addressed to you."

        -Very very good point, and I have to agree with you on that one, but it could have been the neighbor's dog who took em and just threw em in a pile somewhere at his house and your neighbor never found out until you accused him, or maybe some other neighbor stole them from you and put them at his house to frame him.

        "not only is there evidence for evolution, but that evidence is the forefront of curing diseases: DNA"

        In Oriental medicine(Chi Gong) that is already curable in advanced stages, so is Cancer, HIV, Alzheimer and so on, but not deceases that are natural to your body, in other words inherited deceases, but maybe DNA technology could help with those, this is exciting, I hope they succeed, hopefully with no side effects after its perfected.

        Anyways back to my point, what I mean to say, there is a reason we have common sense, like you just pointed out, there are possibilities we just cant ignore, but remember, we live in a world with endless possibilities, always keep your mind open.

        Like Feynma said, he rather live in doubt and uncertainty than to believe in something that might be wrong, he rather just keep an open mind just like anybody else that believes in God and in science, without it being a religion. But then again, when are their both religions? The trust in God and the trust in science. When you start dismissing what you cant proof, just like most religious parties and most scientists do. And what if science and religion are both right? What if they are both wrong? What if they are different sides of the same coin? The answer is irrelevant, we just need to keep an open mind while focusing on bettering ourselves and our technology, evolving spiritually and mentally, and we will find out when we die. No point comparing beer and wine and saying which you like best, they both have alcohol.

        • ah, but what type of damage does each of those things suffer?

          anyone can tell the difference between a sinkhole
          http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/05/31/hond

          and a meteor impact
          http://www.google.com/images?q=meteor+crater&…

          and hey, maybe its the neighbors kids playing a prank on both of ya, just gotta be responsible and talk it out

          Cancer though, lets be clear about what that is, cells get mutations all the time, but every so rarely theres a special combination of mutations, where the thing eats and breeds out of control, without the body recognizing it as going haywire. what are you proposing Chi Gong does to cure cancer? kill it outright? train the body to identify the cancer as cancer, without labeling non cancer as cancer? something else? if it works, then me saying "how? show me" is perfectly reasonable.

        • Perfectly reasonable? Well even for those with little or no understanding of holistic medicine I will try to explain. When for example, a ray of radiation destroys cells in your body, sometimes even messing your DNA, it will tend to keep regenerating, but it wont regenerate right, so the chaotic cells will continue to regenerate and spread, or if you break a bone and it doesn't heal right and the same effect follows, this is cancer. In Chi Gong the call this situation a chaos because in the pranic body(aura) it looks like a very dark purple, that frequency normally isn't bad, but the aura never has an area that vibrates purple that much, not naturally anyways.

          In Chi Gong, due to the danger of the procedure only advanced chi gong masters/doctors should treat patients with cancer, this is because aura is "sticky" to put it simply, if the infected chaotic matter gets into your body, it can influence the cells in your body, but its rare to get cancer from it, often they only feel the side effects until it fades away or after a shower(water contains large amounts of pranic/chi energy) that will literally wash it away.

          The exact steps taking for this procedure sound simple, but they are not, in cases of beginners it can be dangerous, if you don't induce the right refined chi induction you could slowly kill the patient because the cancer can spread even further or they can make themselves sick as I said. Now I haven't done this procedure myself, but the way I understand it, is that the damaged cells are destroyed by causing a "chaos" in a cell's structure, this is done by using a light purple frequency that vibrates faster than other color frequencies, this must be done with the intention of destroying the cancerous cells to prevent harming other cells. Chi Gong mostly works at a cellular level, this is why it is so effective, when the cells try to regenerate again, the Chi Gong doctor will then use his patient's and him-self's cellular frequency to map the regeneration of cells in the area, and like a wound it will begin to regenerate as it normally was before. Its not always required to use cellular frequencies to map regeneration tho, only in severe cases when the area is destroyed, in less severe cases the chi and body know what it has to regenerate and how given that the corrupted cancerous cells are completely gone from the tissue.

          After the treatment, in most severe cases like Leukemia, Lymphoma, and Myeloma it could take months, this is because it will require a full holistic treatment, this means that every organ in the human body needs to be treated every day if the patient is to survive until its healed, if the Chi Gong doctor is experienced enough the patient can come just once a week, given that the patient follows instructions and takes his herbal medication. Herbal medications are always VERY important for treatments, they help stabilize the condition.

          Another thing, this process may sound painful but its not, the patient does not feel any pain, for some reason, upon chi induction patients tend to relax and not feel pain, and in many cases fall asleep. Chi induction is also done with the mind and hands, chi follows mind, whoever works in this career needs to study and train every day to prevent accidents.

          There is however another branch of Eastern Healing arts called Chromotherapy. In Chromotherapy you use chi energy through devices, it uses lights from a lamp, sounds simple but you would be surprised of how much power there really is in a single ray of light. An example, in the case of broken bones, an orange light is used while a negative pole side magnet is put in the area with most pain, and a positive pole side magnet is put on the opposite side, in the universal Ying Yang principles, this step with magnets is taken because it helps stabilize the wound both in the pranic and physical bodies(they are one but yes). Now the orange light is a chi frequency(light is chi) with regenerating properties, red light has stimulating properties(cells speed up), yellow has cleaning properties, green and purple have disinfecting properties(since purple is the thickest, it also has destructive properties if dark enough, rarely used, like in the destruction of cancerous cells), green pranic frequency is also seen most when digesting or eating food throughout the entire digestive system. This is just an example, but of course after this treatment a cast wouldn't hurt anybody eh? Patients usually heal broken bones in a week this way, assuming they don't overdo it and hurt themselves before they are healed. Either way tho, if you compare Chi Gong with Chromotherapy, its like comparing a band aid with a needle and a string, it can never be as effective as Chi Gong given that the chi energy is not manually focused on that task, but it is a very very effective treatment that can double healing time, and in some cases, its used together with Chi Gong treatments since the light from the lamp itself is a good source of chi energy.

          I hoped this info helped you understand a bit of how Chi Gong works, there's so much to learn in this subject.

        • This is just an example, but of course after this treatment a cast wouldn't hurt anybody eh? Patients usually heal broken bones in a week this way, assuming they don't overdo it and hurt themselves before they are healed. Either way tho, if you compare Chi Gong with Chromotherapy, its like comparing a band aid with a needle and a string, it can never be as effective as Chi Gong given that the chi energy is not manually focused on that task, but it is a very very effective treatment that can double healing time, and in some cases, its used together with Chi Gong treatments since the light from the lamp itself is a good source of chi energy.

          I hoped this info helped you understand a bit of how Chi Gong works, there's so much to learn in this subject.

  14. LariLee> almost, except the whole concept of things having ever been "created". we dont know what happened before the big bang, saying there was nothing before then and everything was "created" is purely speculative. sure, everything exists; but provide evidence that requires them to have been "created", its a hypothesis.

    whats that you say? randomness doesnt exist in life -> road trip, we're going to vegas 😀

    Mushroom> heh, to think you got so worked up when thats actually me being fairly diplomatic. its not on me to prove your invisible friend doesnt exist, your inability to prove it does is evidence enough. You owe me a million dollars, prove me wrong; see how that works? heck, simply defining what you mean by "god" would be quite an achievement, let alone a definition of god everyone can agree on.

    now see the problem is the issues get convoluted in rebuking jibberish. some people have imaginary friends; and some people have imaginary friends that tell them that they are inherently smarter than everyone around them (narcissism, look it up). so when the people too lazy to read a book develop bs common sense conclusions in regards to specific topics, those topics become entangled with the existence of their imaginary friend, even though they have no relation outside of the context of refuting mouthbreathers. stop thinking of the light switch, gas pedal, refrigerator, computer, microwave, roads, plumbing, healthcare etc as a magical devices you are entitled to, society made those things, not your imaginary friend, maybe if you work hard enough you can become a productive part of society.

    also, perfectly balanced castle? no.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nqySMvkcw

    • Worked up? Hardly. Diplomatic? We may have different opinions but we are nowhere near being enemies, believe it or not I respect you.

      "stop thinking of the light switch, gas pedal, refrigerator, computer, microwave, roads, plumbing, healthcare etc as a magical devices you are entitled to, society made those things, not your imaginary friend, maybe if you work hard enough you can become a productive part of society."

      And again you loose track on the subject, what you just said is irrelevant. Dismissing what you do not understand with "magical" thinking, you need to stop thinking of science as a religion and belief in God as a religion itself, you continue to associate God as an opposite to science, when the existence of God itself would only mean everything at one point was created by God, be it by evolution or that we pop'd from the air when Adam and Eve were alive. The fact that your entire argument in the comments on this page has been that you don't know but if science is real God must not be says how misinformed you are, remember its Creationism vs Evolution, creationism meaning we humans pop'd out of thin air when God decided to create us, not if God exists or not. And yea I know what narcissism is, I'm a psychologist.

      Now, there is not enough evidence to prove the Big Bang, but lets say the big bang was real, the begging of the entire universe, who put that there? Maybe it materialized from another dimension or entered through a microscopic wormhole, and from where? And who or what put this dimension there? And what created that dimension? There will always be the question of where it came from, and where did that come from, but the snake devouring its own tail will never get anywhere, to those who believe in God, he started everything, so stop worrying so much about the integrity of science, the existence of God would not disprove it, nor science can disprove the existence of God, I don't get why some people keep associating them as opposites.

      "Oh but you have no evidence of God, just like I don't have evidence to disprove it"

      I will go meet him later and bring you a DNA sample. Would that be enough evidence for you?

      Why believe in God then? Well for those who have faith in God is kinda common sense, all the clues I can give to you is your existence, and maybe the miracles that do happen, in the end spiritual evolution is individual, its not how you explain what you do not understand, looking at faith that way is pure ignorance, it is how you explain being, something I don't think you would understand. However the same way its not for you to try to disprove the existence of God is the same way its not up to me to lead you to God, the day you die, hopefully not soon, you will find out, or not? Not gonna try to get the last say in this. But do not insult others by associating God with some "magical" imaginary friend, you miss the entire concept of what a God is.

      • holy text wall batman!

        neat passive aggressive trick there with the "we arnt enemies" bit, Im sure that works out great for you irl.

        " you need to stop thinking of science as a religion and belief in God as a religion itself" ok, lets separate them then, you have an invisible friend and you have decided which attributes you are going to assign to him on your own; now what? how is that useful? sure now you can cherry pick the qualities which have been thoroughly debunked, but that still doesnt get you to a provable claim.

        "was created by God, be it by evolution or that we popâ??d from the air when Adam and Eve were alive" evolutionary theory doesnt describe how life began, it describes how living things change, abiogenesis is the topic you are looking for there.

        "Iâ??m a psychologist" no you arnt.

        "there is not enough evidence to prove the Big Bang" is too. What you might mean to say is that YOU dont know any of the evidence for the big bang. its 2010, put the words into google and read.

        "who put that there?" what evidence do you have which indicates that anything was put anywhere by a "who" for any purpose? because it flatters you to think that your imaginary friend has control over everything and everything is especially here for you? please.

        science doesnt disprove the assertion of your imaginary friend, but it does disprove alot of the claims made pertaining to your imaginary friend.

        sure, I miss the concept, all you've given me is

        *I exist, therefore god is real

        *its not my job to explain my position

        *you'll know when youre dead

        *you're mean/stupid

        let me try that with the "you owe me money" tangent you skipped over earlier

        *I exist, therefore you owe me money

        *its not my job to explain why you owe me money

        *you'll probably figure it out when youre dead, maybe, I dunno

        *why are you being so mean? dont you know I have starving children to feed, pay up! you miss the entire concept of what owing me money is.

        • "holy text wall batman!"

          This by far is the best thing I have read anybody say in this discussion since it began.

          "ok, lets separate them then, you have an invisible friend and you have decided which attributes you are going to assign to him on your own; now what? how is that useful? sure now you can cherry pick the qualities which have been thoroughly debunked, but that still doesnt get you to a provable claim."

          -Again you miss the entire point, you have no evidence to "debunk" anything related to the existence of God, I am yet to see you show anything. What do you mean by "provable claims"? That depends on what you are calling evidence.

          "“was created by God, be it by evolution or that we popâ??d from the air when Adam and Eve were alive” evolutionary theory doesnt describe how life began, it describes how living things change, abiogenesis is the topic you are looking for there."

          Exactly.

          "“Iâ??m a psychologist” no you arnt."

          -Its a rewarding job, you should go see one, no I'm joking, but yes it is my profession.

          "What you might mean to say is that YOU dont know any of the evidence for the big bang. its 2010, put the words into google and read."

          -Trust me, there isn't, its still a theory, it is a possibility, somebody claims it as an official scientific fact does not make it a fact, however I'm not dismissing the possibility that the universe may have started at the big bang.

          "“who put that there?” what evidence do you have which indicates that anything was put anywhere by a “who” for any purpose? because it flatters you to think that your imaginary friend has control over everything and everything is especially here for you? please."

          -You enjoy putting words on people's mouths, your view on Christianity is quite ignorant really. Thats just.. wordplay.

          "science doesnt disprove the assertion of your imaginary friend, but it does disprove alot of the claims made pertaining to your imaginary friend.:

          -Its odd how you dislike the idea of a God existing, I can tell by the way you have dedicated a large amount of time to aggravate people who believe in God, could be arrogance, maybe anxiety of power? I cant say really, its easy to understand what you say, you type with clarity but it is really hard to read the message you are trying to send, because all I perceive is denial. You speak of proof yet to show no evidence to disprove these claims you speak of, which by the way you have not mentioned.

          "sure, I miss the concept, all you’ve given me is…"

          -Let me stop you there, notice that we have been going in circles in this short amount of time, you do not understand the concept of a God, I will make this simple, I see God every time life sparks and child is born as well as I'm aware that it is a biological process. Now, I am a christian, it means I love God, but I am aware that my feet are on the ground, maybe it wouldn't hurt you to look up instead that at your feet, maybe then you could become a productive part of society yourself. Let me explain, not sure if you have heard of this story.

          -A man who had great fate in God got lost at sea, with no hope of being saved, no contact or way to scream for help, so he prays to God to save him. A boat passes by, get in, I will save you said the man in the boat, but the man in distress said no, God will save me, so the man in the boat leaves. Later a helicopter hovers above, get in said the man in the helicopter, but again the man in distress refuses, claiming God would save him, so the helicopter leaves. The boat is sinking and its getting dark, a cruise passes by, but again the man refuses stating that God would save him, the cruise leaves and eventually the man in distress dies. He asks God, father why did you not save me when I needed you? I sent you a boat, a helicopter and a cruise and yet you refused to be saved…

          -Anyways… I'm fairly sure that deep down all human essence is aware of the existence of a creator, even you, I don't have to babysit every fellow human being or preaching the existence of God, as long as you don't justify injustice based on your little theory of an imaginary friend, I really don't care at that point, however like its been said, you need to demonstrate more maturity and understanding in such deep subjects.

          On a side note.

          "let me try that with the “you owe me money” tangent you skipped over earlier"

          -I don't see how that is relevant, but rest assured if I owed you a million dollars you would probably have to catch me first.

        • NotoriousBigBrain on

          A little rough around the edges, but well stated 4realsies. These religious folks have a lot of learning to do, especially when it comes to Science.

        • TheTruthSPeaks on

          @NotoriousBigBrain, You have a lot of learning to do about science and about what religion is, don't encourage ignorance.

  15. It was the egg because, let's say there was a chicken before the very last evolution the species would ever make, once it had an egg, that egg would evolve ever so slightly into the permanent chicken that we see today.

  16. The problem with these idiots on the internet is they think they can discredit God because they think God is one dimensional. Like saying "If a retard is born, God wanted it, and so he must not like that creature". That's soooo idiotic. They think God thinks like a regular person, and so thus, he has a one track mind of "like" and "dislike". No. That's nowhere near a good way to perceive God. For example, the "Free Will" Vs. "Destiny" argument is seemingly black and white, like our 2D perception deceives us to believe. It may not be that a God has predetermined our paths at all. Maybe he didn't give us our separate paths, but he gave us one universal path to follow, and this time on the Earth is part of the path. Sure, Dahmer was evil, but he wasn't predetermined evil in the sense that God wanted him to be. God wanted him not to be evil, but gave him the freedom (Free Will) to do so. That's the ultimate idea, free agency. If God is so special, we probably don't deserve to be with him, and it would seem very apparent that if he exists, then "free will" is a gift we have, and if we abuse it by becoming serial killers, then that's our faults.

    • Very open minded observation. This is a problem with people that don't believe in God, they see the picture but they don't see the colors, then when they think they can see the colors they aren't even looking at the big picture.

  17. These are not "arguments that can't be won" these are just popular debates that wont ever stop. It wont still mean that both are right or wrong.

  18. pretty obvious this was put together by a girl, a democrat, or a girl democrat

    #2 = gun control?!?

    if that doesn't screeeeeeeeem political bias, what does

  19. getting close to two years on this thread now and people are still pretending there is not two sides to each debate…..It is amazing how many here really think they have "proven" something or presented a valid argument instead of an amusing rant.

    this has been fun

  20. In response to the "God debate", no one can 100%, definitely say God does/does not exist. For example: In math (I know this isn't math, bear with me), when doing proofs, to prove something as wrong you have to provide a counter-example. There is no way to disprove a God; who's to say that this isn't all a part of God's plan? On the other end of the spectrum, you can't really fully prove a God either. But that's why it's called a FAITH. You have a trust/belief that something is true.

    I have a similar response to Evolution vs. Creationism. (Yes, we've proved that evolution/natural selection is true, I'm treating this as more of an abiogenesis vs. creationism). Unless you were alive and witnessed the very first cell of life being "born", whether by creation, abiogenesis, or whatever else, we may never know the right answer. Just because we can produce results in a lab, doesn't show that that's exactly HOW it happened, it just shows that's a possible way it COULD happen. (showing that it couldn't be used as a counter-example).

    • You can however say that the evidence for god is insufficient. Just like we shouldnt go to war everytime we are unable to prove that some random country doesnt have wmd's they intend to use against us (where as, we should only go to war when we have evidence they DO, remember "slam dunk" Im still bitter about that).

      Witnesses are an incredibly ineffective source of proof. We dont need someone to watch every tree fall in the woods to know that tree's fall in the woods, or even have ever seen a tree fall to know trees fall, for that matter. Nor do we need to identify every potential way a tree may fall in order to safely conclude that a log on the ground was once an upright tree. Building life all over again out of whole cloth just to sate some peoples childishness doesnt sound like a very effective use of time.

  21. Abortion-

    Actually there's no debate to it or arguments to it, because you know…death by mutilation, asphyxiation, or dilation and cutterage tends to be murder . However to my disappointment and disgust, people have actually found means to make it a debate. I'm sure in the 1940s there were still arguments if whether or not the routines in camp Auschwitz were humane or not. So with that in mind I shouldn't be surprised why people think there's a debate to whether or not abortion is in anyway decent, humane, legitimate, and all that other crap.

    But the most vomit inducing part is when people attempt to argue for some idiotic legitimacy in abortion. My favorite is that moronic "Abortion saves lives" garbage. Ha Ha, so in other words killing children en mass might randomly stop them from becoming social undesirables in the future *shakes head*. The irony in that is that the people who say garbage like this have themselves proven their own social undesirability amongst the human race.

    Seeing society's ridiculousness on the matter would be funny….if it wasn't so tragic. Kind of like the tragedy of not even noticing how 95% of abortion is caused by people who just simply don't want their baby. Yeah, really guys, most abortions don't happen from the incest cases of Sisters who've just banged their Brothers! Most of these children getting diced up inside the womb actually come from two horny retards who didn't want to use contraception!

    A few million in the holocaust. Nearly 1 Billion in abortion. The human race continues to surpass every boundary of audacity.

    • heres the thing about contraception, it isnt 100% effective, 99.9% means youre still looking at getting a kid once every thousand days.

      now I dont suppose it ever occurred to you that every month a woman flushes an egg? whats the difference between that and one that been fertilized? You're just being petty to get on a moral high horse. hows it gonna suffer without a central nervous system?

      dont want an abortion? dont have one. the legal precedents are sound, late term abortions are still banned, except in rare circumstances- if you were right, you wouldnt have to muddy the waters on the details to make a point.

  22. Nice list. The descriptions of almost every debate listed reflect fundamental misunderstandings as well as blatant biases on the part of the author. But that's how it goes. *shrug*

  23. You want proof of God? Don't go too far… look within yourself.

    If God does not exist, why do we know that rape, child sexual abuse, torture, murder are just wrong? how did they came into existence if we came from animals who can't even ponder upon these concepts?

    Don't misunderstand the point, because many will say that what we call morals are the result of evolutionary behavior that over time was seen as beneficial to society. However, roads are beneficial to society and if the governor decides not to have more roads for easier travel, we do not accuse him of a crime, yeah it could be considered unfair but you would deal with it… But if the Governor poisoned your mom, its not only NOT beneficial, but deep feelings, emotions (NOT INSTINCTS LIKE ANIMALS), are stirred… MORALS. How did we get them?

    God is considered the "highest" good. The peak and basis of moral values. So if there is no God, then there is no ABSOLUTE standard to judge something as right or wrong, as good or evil. In this scenario, "morals" would be spin-offs of social-biological evolution. This does not answer the fact that even atheists FEEL certain things as being RIGHT or WRONG…

    Now, i am not saying that it's NECESSARY to believe in God in order to be good, or live a moral life. The argument is that if God does not exist, there is NO absolute GOOD or BAD cuz He is the basis for all good. If you had a child and he was sexually abused, or tortured… is this simply socially inconvenient as taught by evolution? After all, that child is only a byproduct of nature according to atheists… or do humans have innate MORAL WORTH and therefore child abuse and torture is ABSOLUTELY WRONG?

    In the absence of God, MORALITY, the feeling that's created in you while you picture your son being tortured or raped is just a human illusion… it's like saying that there is no objective significance to that act because since there is no God, it can not be neither good or evil.

    Atheists can argue all day long that these MORALS are a simple pattern of social behavior in which God is obviously NOT necessary. However, even they know that the above scenarios are either ABSOLUTELY good or evil; just like many other actions are UNCONDITIONALLY obligatory while others are UNCONDITIONALLY not-permitted.

    • The problem with that is you are working under the impression that there is absolute good and evil and absolute right and and wrong, which I'm sorry to say there aren't. All morals are relative to society weather or not you want to believe that. At different points in history all of you absolute examples of wrong have been normal things that are nether good or evil or even possibly good.

      Example 1: War can be for the good, but really war boils down to murder, but is is ok because it is war.

      Example 2: The inquisition was torture for "Good" if you ask the people of the time.

      Example 3: At one point it was normal for girls to be married off at 10-12 years old and were expected to have children about the same time

      Example 4: In some extreme Islamic groups the girl s blamed if she gets raped.

      Also Animals do have emotions to. Their emotions are generally simpler do to smaller brains but they still have emotions we just evolved larger brains there for more complex emotions.

    • god is not considered the highest good. his teachings are the complete opposite of moral: directives for human sacrifice, to rape and pillage, kill anyone not like you: read the bible, its all there. basing your moral framework on "or else what" is petty and childish. dont you value not causing harm to other people?

      is the only thing keeping you from raping indiscriminately the fear of YOU suffering consequences either from society or your imaginary friend? if thats whats really in your heart, then you arnt moral, you're just a rapist too cowardly to take action.

      • Boy are you confused and misinformed, you sound like a catholic, all christian religions are different views of God, it is their and your ignorance that spreads such views.

        People blame bad things on God but they sure don't thank good things to him, you are only alive so you can evolve, live, suffer, learn from your mistakes and don't grow up to be ignorant and close minded by what society feeds you, examples are believing God does this to you or that homosexuality is normal. Saving you the hassle of wiping your own butt would defeat the purpose of having been created, God does not take 99 cents he takes 100 for a dollar, so stop complaining about life and live it, earn your space, I don't mean that at you directly, I mean this generally. What ever you have to feel of going to hell is the person's fault, the bible doesn't teach that God punishes people, it teaches us that there are certain universal laws of balance that have been set from the moment of existence in this place we call the universe that all living things with a soul must follow, this is why we feel guilt and happiness from young without being taught, depending on the gravity of the sin you go to hell, if not you go to where you must go.

        • exactly, universal laws. like after you a rape a girl, you owe her family X amount of silver and you have to marry her. the complete opposite of moral. feel that? its called shame, your religion is embarrassing you. If you really believe your emotions are instructions from your imaginary friend, then you must realize that religion is running counter to his will.

        • What era are you talking about? You are speaking of human legal laws,and not even from this century, there is a difference between universal law/balance and the laws some toilet $#itter makes in his country, its as big as a difference between law and justice in any country. And once again, Im very sure somebody already mentioned this, there is a huge difference between religion and faith, your atheist comments are very much blown out of the water, but your ego will tell you otherwise.

  24. Gibasnish> google it. bible says if you rape a girl, you owe her father a set amount of silver and you have to marry her. I dont know what context you are claiming this is right in, but youve failed to make your case. or are you saying that just because it wasnt against the law in the past, its always been ok in God's eyes… and since thats all that matters, any day now all the politicians are gonna wake up and repeal all of the anti rape laws, allowing you to bask in the glorious world God intended: where a man can rape as many women as he can afford… your implications betray you, you're an idiot.

    What do you mean by a difference between religion and faith, believing in things for no reason is stupid and believing in stupid things for no reason is exponentially more stupid.

    • Now he resorts to insults, leave it to kids online to loose their cool in arguments, you are just one of many ignorants that live in this planet still living in caves, figure of speech. Must I say this again to make you see the big picture? The bible isn't a rule book its a story book intended to make you think, which apparently is not one of your skills. Let me dumb it down for you.

      If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. — Deuteronomy 22:23-24

      But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. … For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. — Deuteronomy 22:25-27

      If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. — Deuteronomy 22:28-29 – if they screw and gets her pregnant.

      Not only were you completely wrong, failing to understand this has nothing to do with the law of God, but you didn't even get the right paragraph, Id recommend you read the bible again while acknowledge that the whole point of the bible is to learn from the stories, some were right, some were wrong doings, but the point is that you think, THINK. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables?

      • "The bible isn’t a rule book"

        yes it is, some rules are explicit, some are implicit.

        instead of flippantly asking me why something is how it is, why dont you look into the long list of revisions the "bible" has acquired: its just a pile of random stories, made up, plagiarized and mutilated to serve political ends. start by finding out what "bibles" the king james version is cobbled together from, bonus points if you tell me what happened to the authors.

        • Incorrect, its not, its a story book based on historical events and other stories, maybe you are talking about the 10 commandments, which are not absolute and yet they are, you will learn in life that everything is not black and white. It doesn't matter what your government uses it for, it does not affect the meaning of those stories, but I suppose some people don't understand these things, you see a painting yet you don't see the colors so to speak.

        • Oooh! Devil's advocate time! God, or our "imaginary friend," gave only ten laws. The rest were made by the priests and do reflect the social norms of time. Women had value only when breeding the next generation. Virginity was so important because it was the only way a man could be sure she'd be bearing him his children and not another man's. After the consummation, she'd be ensconced in his household where his family would be watching her. Basically, daughters were a drain on the family. They couldn't work like a son could and the only money they brought in was the bride price.

          Nowadays it's very different. Laws change over time as community attitudes change. To give a recent example, the Jim Crow laws of the old South were considered perfectly fine and quite necessary at the time they were implemented. Now they are unconstitutional and make people wince at the thought they were ever law in the first place.

        • I cant believe how people can turn a beautiful faith based on God into this, back then and today a market, very messed up isn't it.

    • Depends on the person, but you still have free will after you die and ofcourse some limitations, you will only be able to go so high so to speak.

  25. there can be no evidence for against god because the notion is nonsense.it says nothing that can be tested.