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  • Durrrrp

    At this point in time, Civil War is more on the money then ever. Weapon registration due to the killing of a lot of children, sound familiar…

    That being said, it was a comic that I (still) like to read, but I never LIKED it…

    Like many of the big company crossovers, the idea is solid, but the execution (and subsequent milking of said crossover…) got from bad to worse.

    The cloning of Thor and killing of Goliath was clearly a vehicle to turn Tony Stark and his pro-registration gang in the bad light, clearly to pander the majority of the fans because they choose Cap’s side. Now instead of a comic that showed us both sides, they just made in into the usual good vs bad thing. And the worst part was that the “bad” guys won, in an extremely unsatisfying ending.

    Civil War is kind of like the worst dump you have ever taken. You don’t want to remember it, but it’s always there in the back of your mind, when you are on the crapper.

    I also agree with most entries. Heroes reborn was terrible, the same crap Image made was now ruining Marvel icons. I never stopped hating Jim Lee and, especially, Rob Liefeld after that. Ultimates 3 was a let-down, relying mostly on an artist that is clearly over his peak. Clone Saga was a big joke, shame to see them still milking it with the new Scarlet Spider series. And One More Day? Let’s just say I won’t forgive the Marvel staff for messing with the most lovable character in comics, Spider-Man…

    I actually liked Ultimatum. It was bad, but it was very “Ultimate”! The Ultimate universe was getting in a rut, and Ultimatum actually tried to shake things up. Killing off lots of big characters was a stupid move though, especially Wolverine. The Ultimate reboot is however a joke, every single issue since Ultimatum has been a let-down.

    All in all, Marvel is still the house of ideas. It’s just that most of those ideas are crap nowadays…

  • Max

    This list needs to be updated to include the plotless Avengers vs X-men.

    • Dan LaLande

      AvX had a plot, the problem is the plot was based around Scott Summers paranoia and martyr complex and they tried to make it seem like both sides were to blame when really it was just Cyclops being a giant sack of crazy.

      So instead of making it clear that the problem was Cyclops being insane, they pretended there was an actual difference in the goals and beliefs of both sides. There wasn’t, cyclops was the guy who complained about living in “a world that hates and fears us” right after getting the presidential medal of freedom and a parade in his honor, and most people pretty clearly saw there was no difference or reason for sane people to fight.

      • George Rogers

        No Cyclops was right. All he was guilty of is being a man who can’t be bought.

        • Dan LaLande

          The marvel world had stopped hating and fearing mutants, thanks to cyclops paranoia he pursued a course that has once again made the mutants targets of hate. Cyclops’ arrogance and distrust sabotaged the dream of coexistence.

          Just because things worked out for the mutants in the end doesn’t mean Cyclops was right. Cyclops original plan, in which he ostracized the scarlet witch and tried to get hope to be the host of a full-strength phoenix without training, would have killed millions of humans. It was reckless and stupid.

          • TheSpacePope

            The only reason the world stopped fearing mutants was because 99.9% of them were eliminated by M-Day. And even with their vastly reduced number, they were still feared. Since M-Day, they’ve had to deal with new sentinels created by O*N*E to police them, the Reavers and the Hellfire club trying to eliminate the last remaining mutants and a full scale attack on their headquarters by Bastion and his human cronies that resulted in more mutant deaths. What was Cyclops to do? Sit back and watch as their enemies cut down their numbers one by one. His actions were ones of a desperate man trying to protect his people. Sure, his actions were rash but I didn’t see the Avengers trying to help them. Cyclop’s actions are no different than Truman and the atomic bomb. He weighed his options and took the one that could help now. nd in the end, he was right. He saved mutantkind. It’s funny how everyone is up in arms because he killed Xavier but wasn’t it worth it to ensure mutantkind ‘s survival?

            • Dan LaLande

              And after the attack by Bastion, he was given a medal by the president, supported by the avengers and the people of San Francisco, and treated as a hero.

              He responded by throwing the medal into the sea and whining more and more about how everyone hates him. Rather than make ANY effort to expand on those good feelings and integrate more, he isolated further and further.

              And then when the avengers DID come to help, he shot Captain America with eye beams and started ranting about how all his enemies were trying to kill everyone. His paranoia and distrust of non-mutants – the very bigotry he claims to fight against – is what started the war. Humans don’t hate and fear mutants, Cyclops hates and fears humans.

              Most importantly, Cyclops’ plan didn’t save mutants. Tony Stark’s plan did.

              Hope was barely able to control a weakened phoenix with training and help from the scarlet witch, if Cyclops had his way a million people would have died, project: Wideawake would have been activated, mutants would have been herded into camps and branded, and everything would have been so much worse. That’s not speculation – that’s the alternate future Bishop is from.

              Cyclops turned from a bland, arrogant kid into a paranoid madman. I’m so glad he’s not in charge anymore, about time.

    • Jude

      On top of what dan said, cyclops is now leading a mutant revolution, and we all saw how that worked out with magneto

  • Dan LaLande

    I disagree with you on why “One More Day” is terrible. Although it is terrible. For me, Peter Parker’s choices are the only ones that make sense. He is giving up his own happiness to save the life of someone else, that is totally in character.

    However, he first asks a number of people to help save Aunt May’s life – many of whom should be able to do so – and they all refuse. Why?

    And what, exactly, does Mephisto get out of the whole arrangement? Particularly when the deal is expanded to “everyone forgets that Peter is Spiderman too so that Peter is happy”?

    That’s a whole lot of reality alteration for very little gain.

  • Daha

    Civil War are you made one of the most successful, most grounded, most epic comic book event of all time? What it doing on this list?

  • Daha

    Secret war maybe or at least the final issue of amazing spiderman

  • Jude

    I gotta agree with daha on the final issue of amazing spiderman. Marvel took one of their most popular heros, if not their most popular hero, and killed him off. But it couldn’t be tasteful like in the ultimate series. Nope, they filled his head with the mind of doc ock. I officially stopped buying anything spiderman related after that week.

    • thetrellan

      I don’t blame you. They make it look like killing off Ultimate Spider Man was a test of some kind. That worked, you gave them money for it by continuing to buy the book after Peter was replaced, so what’s your reward for your loyalty? They kill off the “real” Peter.

      Every get the feeling you shouldn’t encourage someone?

  • Akil Prowell

    Okay, I haven’t read some comic before the Spiderman movie. since than movie I been a huge Spderman fan for a decade. I do agree on something but you guys are forget one more thing. and is Superior Spiderman. The writers make Norman Osborn come back to life somehow. They confuse readers with the clone saga thing. And the writer the relationship between Peter Parker and mary Jane. BUT THEY HAS GONE WAY TOO FAR WITH IT. These idiots thought it would be a great idea to kill him in the last issue of the amazing spiderman even thought they kill in the ultimate version. and now Doc Ock is Peter’s body and Peter is dead. The writers better make peter back because he have to deal with Doc ock’s mess. Peter will maybe get fied again, he’ll be broke again, and things will turn bad for him again. The writers want Peter to go broke. Marvel, you are reading this need to stop RIGHT NOW! STOP IT! STOPIT! STOP ITTTTTTTTTTT!

  • Gojirob

    I think a lot of the worst ideas listed and discussed here fall under the old piece of wisdom which goes : Just because you can do something, that doesn’t always mean you should. Also, I don’t know that Hank’s accidental backhanding was a low point in and of itself. It was meaningful at the time, and let all remember, Jan very promptly divorced him after, so no years of taking it in silence – in fact I think she started a run as Avengers Chair after as well. Has it been horribly mishandled and retconned so you would think there is no sunlight between Hank-616 and Ultimate Hank? Hell Yes.

    The list :

    10 – Carol actually got better treatment from Rogue.

    9 – The Clone Saga proper went on for two years ; Due to endless special issues, mini-series and stoopid efforts to make the readers want Ben to be the real one (Liked Ben, but not as Real Pete) made it go on more like four years, and five if you count the pain that was the Byrne reboot. A lot of you are down on JMS – but what came just prior made everything except Sins Past seem like mountain air. Not to mention the angst-grimfest that preceded it all with the phony parents.

    8 – The Crossing – If everything we know is wrong, then there is something wrong with those that first told us what we know, and certainly with those telling it now.

    7 – Reborn – I’d still like a Cap/Bucky figure set from that era. And that is all. Also, they should have used it to restore Johnny/Crystal.

    6 – I’m gonna say that CA’s run was just the distillation with the problem of modern X-Men : How long can your Mutant Armageddon clock stay at 11:59:59 PM? Sorry. off-topic, I know.

    5 – Sins Past – Note : THIS ONE, they wouldn’t let OMD override. Hey, JQ? Having kids does not make Peter old – hating the idea makes you–Joe Quesada.

    4 – Civil War – What does it say when the plot of the Video Game adaptation is massively better liked than the original?

    3 – OMD – The most frightening thing about OMD is the near cult-like hold the idea of destroying Peter/MJ had on every creative source in comics’ existence. Its like not one of them liked the marriage, and they spoke with nearly one voice on getting rid of it, whereas fans were split, either liking it or not seeing the dire need to get rid of it. And even those that hated the marriage hated OMD. Again, and forgive the refrain : What new-great stories have been told since that could not have been told with MJ around?

    2 – Ultimates 3 – Stupid Flanderization!

    1 – Ultimatum – Once more : Just because you can….

  • danatblair

    Honestly, If this list were newer I wouldn’t be shocked to see Superior Spider-man on the list. Given that it’s a Knightfall clone marketed by trolling I don’t have a lot of respect for it.

  • Alexander Klarfeld

    First of all, I completely agree with every single entry on this list, ESPECIALLY Civil War, One More Day and Ultimatum. All of them stunk and should never have been published. All ten of them. Granted, there have been others that are comparably bad, such as Avengers Disassembled and House Of M, and, more recently, the blatant middle finger of an ending in Amazing Spider-Man 700, but in any event, here is my two cents on each moment.

    10. Jim Shooter should never have been allowed to be a writer in Marvel Comics. Avengers 200 and the rape of poor Carol Danvers therein alone is proof of that, and there’s plenty of other bad stuff Shooter pulled both before and after that, both in the comic book world and towards others. There were a lot of creators he alienated and characters he contaminated, to say nothing of lousy stories he wrote. far too many to go into here. If he’s reading this, I hope I’ve offended him, because he deserves it, seeing as how he’s offended so many and is known for having been the Nixon Of Comics.

    9. Ah, the Clone Saga. An ever so infamous moment in Spider-Man history, and possibly the start of the repeated instances in which Spider-Man fans(myself included)have been tortured. What’s ironic is, Ben Reilly as a character wasn’t half bad, but I hated(like many did)the Clone Saga story and the way that it led to Spider-Man thinking he was the clone for a time. And that’s not even getting into the stuff that made it reek. Clones in general are a bad idea, and especially when a storyline about them is handled so poorly. It was sad to see Ben Reilly die at Green Goblin’s hands, but at least it put everything having to do with the Clone Saga the heck away and made it clear the original Peter Parker was the true, real Peter Parker and thus the true Spider-Man. Unfortunately, not only did it, as mentioned in the list, leave the door open to make it turn out Aunt May hadn’t died after all when her time had clearly come, but Marvel apparently didn’t learn a thing, as they later cloned Magneto in the form of the ill-fated and soon to die, ironically at Magneto’s hands, Joseph.

    8. Rectons are rarely a good thing, and what The Crossing did to Iron Man was inexcusable as much as atrocious and abominable. It was his worst pre-Civil War character derailment(though when I get to that, I’ll be emphatic about just how much worse it was)and it stained his character and who he was in the worst way. That Teen Tony took his place as Iron Man only added fuel to the fire. Besides how this was indeed a middle finger to Iron Man fans and they knew, deep down, that there was no way in heck Iron Man was actually a traitor and these were creators being jerks of the worst kind, the very fact it was retconned out of existence and thankfully undone in full with Iron Man being back to what he truly was and the whole thing of The Crossing never having happened shows just how much it blew and just how true it was that the creative team behind it was forced to admit they had done something dreadful and needed to undo their mistake.

    7. OOOOOH, did Heroes Reborn ever fall flat! Certainly not a good way to try and start things up again, and although the 90’s were a good time for a lot of types of entertainment, comic books were a major exception to this. I really don’t get why heroes went from friendly to gritty come the 90’s, and I frankly never will. But in any event, I’m not the least bit surprised that it got retconned out of existence like it did. I wasn’t when it happened, and I’m not now. Frankly, there was nothing that could possibly happen to make it so that Heroes Reborn would last. Not with what it meant and everything it did to ruin what made the Marvel Universe great. Ironically, if the idea had been handled better and in a way that actually did something good for new stories, then it might have been a defining moment or a milestone. But not so. And with the way it had to be rebooted so that it never actually happened, it can only be looked at as one of the worst times of comics in the 90’s, although there were plenty of those, especially when that anathema who is Onslaught was involved, but still.

    6. I would like to make it very clear indeed that not only is it 100% accurate and astute to say that Chuck Austen’s X-Men were horrendous, but here is the thing. Never mind the fact he makes the X-Men and sometimes their villains out to be things they’re not, plus make things happen with them that simply are not true and are fundamentally disconnected from them. Chuck Austen made no attempt whatsoever to hide his contempt for the audience he wrote comic books for, and let’s face it. He was nothing but a selfish, obnoxious, rotten, pompous, greedy, character ruining waste of life who did his job for little more than a paycheck and a way to find an excuse to tick people off. His treatment of Nightcrawler in storylines like the awful “Holy War” and the even worse “The Draco” in particular sticks out in terms of his bad writing. Between that and how his writing of The Avengers was almost as bad, not to mention how his ineptitude was coupled with his unlikable personality, which he would project into almost any character he wrote about and therefore make them rotten and unlikable, too, it’s not hard to understand why I’m baffled anyone would hire a lowlife hack such as that.

    5. Okay, first thing’s first. The majority of Spider-Man comics that JMS wrote(I’m not even going to bother writing his full name, since you know who I’m talking about and he doesn’t deserve the respect of having his full name written anyway, hack that he is)were pretty bad. But this one was definitely in the worst of the worst of them. There is no way whatsoever Gwen Stacy would get in bed with Norman Osborn. She is not a dumb blonde. Yes, she’s blonde, and yes, she’s beautiful, but she’s not stupid and she isn’t a flirt! Unfortunately, she was made out to be just that in this storyline which is a retcon that flies in the face of one of the most powerful, heart-rending, famous and tragic stories in all of Spider-Man history. That Gwen was a loyal, honest, lovable, kind and innocent girl as well as an attractive one further signifies, since she was with Peter Parker at the time she was kidnapped, that she would never sleep with another person, let alone the one who’d become her abductor and eventually her killer! Though the title, Sins Past, is certainly correct, because this was one of JMS’s top worst sins even though it’s in the past! Trashing the memory of a sweet, innocent, lovable and unfairly dead character, for shame! Anyone who likes this piece of garbage seriously has to have their head examined.

    4. As I’ve already mentioned, one of the moments on this list I especially hated was Civil War. First of all, there was the way that literally EVERYONE in the story was portrayed out of character in the worst possible way. Second of all, there were racist moments aplenty, most notably Clor killing poor Goliath and later attempting to do the same to Storm and Black Panther. But more than this, and the way Iron Man was turned into such a monster(when really he’s not like that at all)he had to have five years of his memory erased to become a hero again, let’s not be forgetting this. Having villains like BULLSEYE and TASKMASTER helping your side is not what heroes do, yet it happened in this story. There were more villains who were chosen by the pro-reg side, of course, but the point is, that was as out of character for the ones who did it as it was blatantly forced by that pretentious, selfish hack Mark Millar. And that’s before you go into how numerous people stopped reading comics because of this story(and for good reason)and had gotten to hate everyone on the pro-reg side despite liking them previously. Character derailments of the worst kind were done to everyone in this story, in one form or the other, and I’d like to mention additionally that it ham-fistedly, ineptly and pathetically tried to draw political parallels to superheroes and 9/11 and the war on terror, which makes it all the more of a hideous, disgusting and god-awful comic book. The creators who made it are all scum, and that they would have it so anti-reg heroes were imprisoned without even a trial and often tortured in the negative zone, as well as have it so Captain America got tackled by 9/11 World Trade Center heroes as a way of saying “He must be wrong despite being the symbol of America and Sentinel Of Liberty, if the World Trade Center heroes agree with registration despite how obviously wrong it is” by Millar is as obscene as it is offensive to those most affected by the hellish tragedy that is 9/11. That Civil War led to One More Day in Spider-Man’s case only multiplies the badness by a factor of at least five. Now, here is the thing. Besides the way that anyone who likes this disgraceful excuse for a comic book is a brainless fool and moron blind to how bad it is who is NOT a true Marvel fan, and those who dislike it(there are a great many, of course)do so for good reason, I want to state something having to do with that worthless, selfish, greedy, pompous and pretentious hack writer and waste of human life who is the less subtle than an H-Bomb Mark Millar(especially since Civil War, while among his worst stories, is far from the first time he’s made characters fully unlikable and/or written a story with racism and/or intent to anger fans and be obnoxious in it). Back in 2006, Mark Millar paused writing Civil War because he’s caught Crohn’s disease. Well deserved, given what a bad person he was and is. He recovered and went on to finish Civil War(which, lest any of us forget, involved promise breaking, as he promised along with the rest of Marvel that both sides would be presented equally but then made the pro-reg side out to be evil and whatnot, therefore of course making it so they lied to trick the fans and treacherously lure them in to their true intents), right down to making Cap surrender. Easily one of the top worst parts of the story, if not the worst. Tragically and sadly enough, five years later, in 2011, Dwayne McDuffie, a good, kind, giving man who usually did a good job with his work and was a great person in general, plus had gotten the raw deal at DC by Dan Didio(another poor excuse for a comic book creator, but he’s not part of this, so I digress) in 2009, was unfortunate enough to pass away during surgery. A heartbreaking and lament-worthy moment indeed. Well, I wish that it had happened a much different way. As in, I wish that Mark Millar, that lying drunk of an arrogant, unlikable, comic book ruining and fan angering scumbag had died of his crohn’s disease somehow or other, and that Dwayne McDuffie had survived his surgery and got back to being as good as new. Had it happened that way, we’d still have a great, likable, nice and generous man like Dwayne McDuffie around, and we’d have one less stain on this world to do everything in his power to anger comic book fans and in general be a self-centered lowlife, as we’d be without Mark Millar and get to say good riddance to the SOB. Unfortunately, this was not to be, but it would have been wonderful if it had been, especially since it would also mean Civil War would have been unable to be finished and most likely be cancelled. All of this would make us a lot better off, and I can see no downside to it. If I’ve offended Millar and hurt his feelings in saying this, then good, because the guy had it coming.

    3. Okay, this is DEFINITELY the top worst moment in not only all of Marvel Comics, but also all of comic books in general, and possibly all of entertainment, really. Never mind the fact that Spider-Man is nothing like he was portrayed in One More Day, and especially at the end of it, and how we Spider-Man fans have been tortured by hack creators before, but never on this level. There’s also the way that, besides how Aunt May made it clear her time had come and Peter should let her go, there is no way that someone like Mephisto would be in any way interested in a guy like Spider-Man to make a deal. They’re in two different leagues, on two different levels and they barely know about one another. Mephisto could never warp reality until One More Day, which shows how forced that part was, and Spider-Man’s integrity, honestly, steadfast heroicness and, of course, his responsibility, makes it so that he would NEVER make a deal with the devil of all things, and most especially one to erase his marriage, save the life of an aunt who’d lived her life and wanted to die so he could be happy with the woman he loved, Mary Jane, and move on, and in a way so that twenty years of Spidey continuity and therefore his life were erased! Mary Jane is also much stronger and more spirited than she was portrayed in OMD, with a far stronger will, just like Spidey’s will is far above what OMD made it out to be. Resurrections of characters who should have stayed dead coming from it only made it worse, and that it was part of what butchered Marvel Comics continuity well beyond repair in every way further signifies how unspeakably terrible it is. How did a guy like Joe Quesada ever get placed into a position of authority, especially knowing he’d do anything to break up Peter and MJ? OMD was most assuredly his deliberate middle finger to the fans and he’s pretentiously acted like the fans who hate it don’t get Spider-Man, even though, if there is anyone who doesn’t get Spider-Man, it’s Quesada! He well deserved being booed off stage like he was and all the hatred he gets to this day for OMD, and I don’t blame the universal decrying by the fans for the storyline. That it came out of Civil War, and that it led to things like One Moment In Time and the 699th and 700th issues of ASM, as well as the abysmal Superior Spider-Man(more like inferior and forced by scummy creators Spider-Man)magnifies how horrid it is. Also compounding how disgraceful it is, I might add, is the fact that Joe Quesada knew how much he’d be hated for it and how it would destroy the continuity of both Spider-Man and Marvel in general beyond any hope of repair, as well as how it was selfish and only something he wanted to happen, and yet he went right ahead and did it, anyway. I’m just glad that numerous people’s reactions to and talks about the OMD storyline have roasted Quesada like the pig that he is. Don’t know if he’s come across any professional roasters or not, but either way, the roasters he’s gotten for OMD do so for good reason and it is a well deserved roasting of that turkey named Joe Q. Of course, OMD is far from the first time he’s pulled a rotten stunt in comic books of some sort, as evidenced by Chuck Austen’s X-Men, Sins Past and Civil War(which is the top worst of those particular 3, IMO)but OMD is most assuredly the worst of the worst when it comes to Quesada’s wrongdoings and trashing of comic books and the characters thereof. Really, if there’s anyone out there who likes OMD, they must be so dumb and brainless that they make the likes of Jessica Simpson and Sarah Palin look like utter intellectuals. I was not the least bit surprised when this abomination of an atrocious storyline alienated readers galore.

    2. While all of the volumes of Ultimate Marvel titled “The Ultimates” were pretty bombastic and filled with obnoxious, unlikable characters despite their popularity and success(which comes as no surprise, seeing as how that rotten piece of slime Mark Millar wrote them), Jeph Loeb’s Ultimates 3 was indeed, undeniably and irrefutably the worst of them. Since Jeph Leob is just as bad, if not worse, a writer than Millar(and that is TRULY saying something, to be sure), this isn’t surprising. But even still, one could hardly expect that such dreadful writing, horrendous artwork and inexcusably bad work could be found in any comic book. Leob proved that wrong, though, and while this sure did BEGIN the end for the Ultimate Marvel universe, Ultimates or otherwise(though you’d be hard pressed to find anything involving characters who were the least bit likable in any Ultimate Marvel comic book, but still), it paled in comparison to what will be mentioned next here and if Ultimates 3 was bad, then what I’m about to write about and the last of these moments mentioned is surely in a league of its own when it comes to being reprehensible.

    1. Ultimatium wasn’t JUST what saw to it the Ultimate Marvel universe was destroyed and so was what was good about it, even if that was in a sea of bad things and/or flaws, despite a lot of people not seeing said downsides, but it was the numero uno horrific Ultimate Marvel comic book of all time. Never mind the disgusting ways in which characters are killed, the lack of logic and how, at the end, it’s not really an end and it’s more like some kind of…convoluted revelation that opens a lot of questions after a horrific letdown of a comic book. It’s unbelievable that even Loeb would write such a piece of trash pile of garbage, and it comes as no shocker to me whatsoever that the Ultimate Marvel universe needed a major reboot after the Ultimatium storyline. I mean, five simple issues destroying everything with ease after several years? That alone should make it clear how bad it was, but that’s before you get into how much worse every characterization has become and how it is nothing more than an insulting imitation of a comic book. Frankly, an infant could write a better comic book story than this. Heck, a maggot could. How Leob got hired to write for any comic book company confuses me to no end, the way he would write trash such as this so shamelessly. If you never read a single issue of this story, then you’ve done yourself a favor and made it so that at least in one way, the world is made a bit better. If you like Ultimatum despite how it is everything I have just described, as well as overall universally loathed(and for good reason), then I’m sorry, but there is something seriously wrong with you and you have SERIOUS issues. To say nothing of how you’re an idiot if you like something so disgustingly dreadful.

    Anyway, sorry for how long this was, but I had a lot to cover about each of these abominable and abysmal atrocities that undeserving of their job creators had the nerve to inflict on the comic book world and the fans thereof. Excellent list, Nathanael Hood, and you did an excellent job, especially since I couldn’t agree with you more, and thoroughly so. I’m betting that anyone who likes any of these at all has ignored what makes them bad along with having the less than favorable traits I mentioned. I also saw your Top 10 Worst Moments In DC Comics list, and that was very nicely done, too, along with something I agree with. You do this sort of thing quite well, and I hope you will continue to do such a good job as this with Top 10 Lists on this site.

  • Momus

    Quesada didn’t all the sudden decide he didn’t like Peter Parker being married. Some of the worst storylines in Marvel history, including the clone saga on your list, were created to try to get Spider-Man back to being single. The scarlet spider was going to be the real Spider-Man, and single, while the clone would go off and live happily ever after with Mary-Jane

    • Richard Bottoms

      I’ve seen this plot before. Only then it was called ‘The Stolen Earth’ and ‘Journey’ End” on a little know TV show called Doctor Who.

  • Cady

    I quite liked Civil War… Of course I have quite the flair for dramatics and Civil War was totally my kind of thing. Though, Steve Rogers is my favorite character, so the end of that was a bust.

    If it were up to me honestly I’d put Sins Past as number one on the list just because of how… Entirely WRONG that whole thing was. Of course, I never read Ultimatum or The Ultimates 3, just Ultimates 1 and 2, so Ultimatum could definitely be worse than Sins Past.

  • Silixis

    Civil war rakes place over 187 issues. For whatever reason a lot of review sites only read the 7 issues of the main mini-series. When the entire run is read (although the heroes for hire issues can be left out) you get quite and epic story, ranking high with some of the best stories marvel has produced.

    Not to mention the massive buildup it had over the past 3 decades. (There are issues of west coast avengers that talk about proposing a super human registration act). In the years just before civil war, the events of avengers dissambled, house of m, wolverine enemy of the state, and about 20 other story lines all lead up logically to civil war.

    It was an event that needed to happened and was very well written out.

    Of course, if you only judge it on 7 out of 187 issues, discard its decades long buildup and come in with a hateful attitude of all things post avengers dissambled then you will not enjoy it.

    • thetrellan

      Aunt may being a dna-altered actress stretches credulity to the breaking point just to avoid using the clone idea, though. Pete actually never noticed that the woman he’d known his entire life was an actress? Riiight.

      Ever get the feeling your writer suffers from an imagination deficiency? Peter lives in a world that has Reed Richards, for cryin’ out loud! Surely reality can be made to hiccup a time or two in these cases.

      And for those who feel that Civil War was good if you only bought every last title Marvel was putting out at the time, I just want to point out that the title comic for the event shouldn’t really give one a false impression of what’s happening. That’s just poor planning. And this comes from one who cares not one way or another what happened in “Avengers Disassembled”. Don’t care for Finch’s art, so I didn’t get it.

      CW itself was only 7 issues. Those 7 issues made it look like everyone just begins attacking each other at the first whisper of trouble, certainly long before a democratic government has time to enact any kind of legislation. It made no sense, and even a title which is just part of a bigger whole needs to make some kind of sense.

      THAT is why Civil War was Marvel’s biggest mistake of all time, big enough that only in the past year or so have things settled down. It shook up the entire comics industry. Disillusioned fans have left in droves, leaving only the relatively new readers who don’t really understand what all the fuss is about.

      Granted, some, such as myself, waited until well after World War Hulk to leave. I was just hoping things would get better, eventually coming to the conclusion that the Marvel Comics I used to love was just gone forever.

  • OaG

    Loeb did a great job of turning a new, great thing into the old thing. The ultimates was one of the best comics and had nothing to do with the avengers, yet he (and his team) managed to turn everyone into their 616 versions, suits and all. Avengers mansion? Iron man’s armor? Thor’s persona, suit and hammer? Wasp not Asian? The guy should at least have read Ultimates 1 and 2 before going in, he clearly didn’t and, ignorant to what it was about, wrote the avengers.

    Ultimates 3 and ultimat drove me away from comics. The sentry and everything revolving around it have kept me well away.

  • Killed this bitches super-girls fo good

    I hated the wasp all the time since she was created by Stan Lee, glad they did it

    • thetrellan

      Thor was unreadable at first, just a second-rate Superman, until Lee took over completely as the writer.

      Just saying, he may have exercised some mega-poor judgment in his dealings with Kirby, but the dude could write. Without him there would be no Marvel to complain about today.

  • Daniel

    Poor writing decisions, such as the Spiderman Clone saga, can be forgiven, or at least hopefully forgotten; but the overall downward spiral of the culture of comics, and marvel in particular, can not be.

    The last couple decades have seen a definite and severe moral decline. Comics are no longer about heroes, they now feature super-powered MMA fighters at the best and thugs at the worst. Title characters have forgone interesting back-stories and complex personalities for one-line yell matches and anything goes lifestyles. “Old fashioned” values like truth and justice have to make way for “whatever gets the job done,” and the job itself usually involves beating someone to a pulp because it would make an interesting battle for the reader.

    How many marvel story arcs have you noticed involve heroes fighting one another? Most villains now play a back seat if they are featured at all. It’s far easier for the lazy writer to slap a titillating title of hero-vs-hero together. What have all the big arcs been about in recent years? Civil War, Avengers vs X-men, Hulk vs Everyone. When you have a new generation of writers who adhere to amoral nonsense and don’t believe in the mocked simplicity of good versus evil, then this is where you end up.

    While violence has always been a part of comics, as fighting bad guys will always necessitate combat; the gratuitous and vulgar level of violence has reached a point that even those desensitized to it are still disgusted. This ridiculous level of attempted shock value is what happens when you have no true ideas as a writer. The trend of high death tolls isn’t a creative endeavor, it’s an infantile attempt to grab attention when storytelling is just too hard to accomplish.

    Lastly, the obvious assault on any normality or any positive relationships is the final straw. What do new writers and editors do when they encounter characters who have wholesome relationships or might be positive role models? They demolish those relationships in an attempt to “modernize” the character. A married Spiderman? Can’t have that. The same with happily married DC Dibnys, that relationship needs to go in the most brutal way possible. Storm marrying Black Panther? Of course it is temporary. Kitty and Colossus finally finding happiness? HAH, as if we would let that happen. It’s like one unending bad episode of the latest skanky reality TV show.

    Like much of Hollywood today, instead of comics trying to shine the bright possibilities of humanity to their readers; the industry instead reflects the most base and vile components of society and uses the excuse “this is what people want.” Well, they can tell themselves that little lie to make themselves feel better about peddling their trash, but if I wanted to see filth I would watch the evening news. I used to pick up a comic book to have my inner child dazzled with wonder. Now when I read one all I think about is how new readers are missing out on the good comics of yesteryear.

    • thetrellan

      I’m with you there, Daniel, about the shock value preference of writers today. Although Stan Lee used to joke about boring his audience while pausing the main story to focus on back story and character development, it was treating those characters like real people and the development of more realistic relationships between them that helped distinguish Marvel from the competition.

      For 12 years Marvel evolved and defined their world. And once Lee decided he had things just perfect, he decided to expand his horizons beyond comics. So he laid down the rule of illusion of change, denying future writers the freedom to totally choose how character develop, and moved to Hollywood.

      Well, I know that’s a gross oversimplification. But in all the years since, have any relationships come about that tugged the heart the way Peter and Gwen’s did? And why don’t the Avengers feel more like a family after all this time, with cliques of devoted friends and lovers growing closer, then apart? For that matter, why did the New Avengers feel so much like the Defenders, and Wolverine and Cage still don’t come across as really being Avengers at all when they’ve been with the group for so long?

      Because Marvel doesn’t care about any of that stuff. Frankly, it might as well be television.

      Then again, heroes have always fought each other in Marvel comics. It was part of the more realistic approach to characterization.

      DC’s heroes all knew each other’s identities, as if wearing a mask and cape meant a person could be trusted implicitly. But Lee and Kirby both knew that real people often conflict, the more serious the stakes the greater the conflict.

      But yeah, still doing that constantly after more than 50 years doesn’t make sense either.

  • Hornacek

    The Aunt May that died wasn’t a clone, she was a “genetically-modified actress”. And it didn’t happen in the Clone Saga, it happened in The Gathering of Five/The Final Chapter right before the reboot. At this point the clone sage was still fresh in Marvel’s memory and they didn’t want to mention any clones in Spidey comics, so they had the Goblin say that he had found an elderly actress and genetically altered her to replace Aunt May.

  • Davidson

    Wow just wow. As a comic book fan from the early 90’s it’s really sad when you realize the types of idiotic decisions that were made with storyline, dialogue, and art.
    Also I can’t believe “Spider-Man/Black Cat: The Evil that Men Do” didn’t make the cut. :)

    • Hornacek

      The first issues of TETMD were pretty good. Then Smith took a 3 (?) year break and when he came back he decided to make Black Cat a rape victim because hey, comics right? Any female superhero has to have endured a sexual assault because that’s how male writers write female characters. Ugh.

      • the trellan

        Don’t be too hard on the poor writer, he’s just trying to bring something forward that most people would rather not think about. Unfortunately he fails to understand that this is one of the subjects people read comics to get away from.

        It probably didn’t make the list because many readers had given up entirely on Spider-Man, a title that thrived on the melodrama/romance that writers seem unable or unwilling to include these days. It’s all action, action, and more action now. In other words, not that many read it.

        • Hornacek

          Smith took a 3 (?) year break in the middle of the mini-series, that’s just unprofessional. If you can’t complete a 6 (?) issue mini-series, then don’t start it.

          And there was no need to make Black Cat a rape victim. Oh, that’s why she became a costumed character. No, we already got her origin years ago from Marv Wolfman and Roger Stern. But thanks for making a strong female character have a sexual assault in her past. This is a crutch that male comic book writers do to female characters all the time because they think it will give them character and motivation. It just shows that they can’t come up with anything original to writer about the character so “I might as well make her a rape victim, that happens to women!”

  • Gojirob

    I would say, for myself, that one of the worst aspects of Peter’s unmasking was that, with a bare few exceptions, we saw no positives to this – only negatives. Yes, the villains were going to come after his family, but except for Peter David’s book, the possible good was never even explored.

    Another point against all of Civil War was inconsistent scenes between issues like : Tony telling Peter in Peter’s book that the imprisoned were there for life, while in the main CW issue, he told him they were just there till they registered.

    • Hornacek

      That’s because they never intended him unmasking to be a permanent thing. They have admitted that the only reason they did it was to put him in the position where he would have to make the deal with Satan (i.e. Mephisto) to reverse it and the marriage. Quesada was hellbent on fixing a problem that didn’t exist.

      • Gojirob

        I get that, about Quesada’s antics. I just meant that, even as a temporary plot twist – and no one anywhere I think believed that it was permanent – it was poorly utilized. Again, except for PAD’s work, and maybe Peter getting to tell hypocrite Liz Osborn off, the good in this move was completely overwhelmed by an utterly predictable villain attack storyline. This also has the extra effect of making Tony and Reed look even dumber or viler for not taking surveillance on everyone from Aunt May to Peter’s oddball roommates from the JMS Team-Up days–and don’t tell me they were concerned for their privacy.

        They really should have unmasked Peter a year before the War, as part of the build-up. The storyline was strangled by coinciding with the CW. Linkara said it : You can’t shift the status quo when no storyline is around long enough to become rooted.

        As a worst moment, I’m going to give special mention to the hideous pointless death of Billy Connors. I hope he is reborn on an Earth with Lian Harper as his little sister. If they ever want to hard reset anything else, have it turn out the entire Connors family has been in cryo since Calypso’s Lizard attack in Todd Mcfarlane’s day, and the ones we’ve seen tormented and die were voodoo clones. That one, I would support.

  • Hornacek

    I can accept them unmasking Peter if they knew it was not going to be permanent but their reason for doing it was character growth and story potential. But that is not why they did it. The only reason was that it was one of their stepping stone to undoing the marriage. They weren’t interested in exploring the ramifications of it because they didn’t do anything with it. Peter David (and maybe Roberto Aguiera-Sacasa) was the only one that tried to write some stories that dealt with it, but those stories were ignored by the main book because Amazing was all about getting Peter to the point where he would make a deal with Satan to undo his marriage to save his 90-year-old aunt.

    The death of Billy Connors is terrible, but it loses out a bit on “worst moment” because all of Shed is just awful. There is nothing redeeming about that story. Ugh.

  • Sacrificial Lamb

    Civil War drove me away from comic books. :(

  • RoG™

    I came hear mostly to confirm that my most hated, ‘one more day’ was on the list. That storyline was really bad. We already know Mephisto has a love of taking souls, making people his slaves, etc….but he’s willing to let Aunt May live just so he can get some jollies out of Peter never falling in love with MJ. wtf? why not take spider mans soul, or make him do your dirty work? The dialog while he’s explaining the rationale for it is cringe inducing, a bunch of ‘power of love’ type garbage that nobody would believe. It really really bothered me because i had just started collecting spidey again after a few years off, and the stories were getting really good. ‘brand new day’ and the ensuing reboot was awful, with dumb new villians and more traditional spidey stories.
    I will say i don’t think Civil War belongs on here. I really liked it. It wasn’t perfect but it was entertaining. I really didn’t think it was much of a stretch to think Tony would do something like that, and behave in that matter. I think we need a little gray area in our stories sometimes…its not all good vs evil. I do feel however, that the whole spider man unmasking was just a tool to get them to where they wanted to be so they could do the spidey reboot they wanted.

  • Rubydup

    I agree with your list except Civil War and also I will add Hickman’s run and incursion which is biggest BS on Xorn or teen Iron-man level. Because it just doesn’t make sense :D.

  • cpj

    this list is complete garbage. Readers loved spidey getting buffed in one more day. people loved civil war, hence why its getting a movie. I think you put a couple of these in there just for shock factor because everyone knows the crossing and clone saga are the top two worst for marvel.

  • Matt

    I would replace Civil War with the Superior Spider-Man.

    Plot holes galore, dumbing down the entire Marvel Universe, insulting the intelligence of longtime readers, and how NOBODY BUT JOE QUESADA’S DAUGHTER AVATAR (Carlie Cooper), AND NORMAN OSBORN CAN FIGURE OUT IT IS DOC OCK!? Even though:

    1. Kaine, a clone of Peter with all his memories up to his college years, FOUGHT AND KILLED DOC OCK! To top it off, Ock ALL BUT ADMITS “I AM DOC OCK!” In said fight.

    2. Wolverine, access to dozens of telepaths (this is even addressed in a spinoff story in Avenging Spider-Man) doesn’t call a telepath to Avengers Tower when they “scan” him in Issue 7?


    4. Why in Issue 7 DID THEY GET THE SCIENTIFICALLY RETARDED AVENGERS to scan “Peter?” when not 17 issues ago (back then comics came out bi-weekly, so not even 7 months of publication had passed) when Peter made Alpha by accident, Reed Richards, Hank Pym, Hank McCoy, T’Challa, and Tony Stark ALL CAME OUT TO SCAN HIM!? So wait, they will take time to scan a little shit brat, but not PETER PARKER!? The guy ON EVERY SINGLE MARVEL TEAM AND THEIR DOG!?

    5. Mary Jane. She has been kidnapped MORE TIMES THAN ANY OTHER GIRLFRIEND BY DOC OCK. How does she NOT recognize his speech pattern, especially when she is an ACTRESS? Speech and dialect is a learned skill in that department!

    6. Aunt May was ENGAGED to Doc Ock, which means Ock spent time with her to get to one another (which they selectively ALLUDE TO!) AND she RAISED Peter! So wait, she DOES NOT RECOGNIZE NOT ONLY PETER OUT OF CHARACTER, BUT SHE CAN’T RECOGNIZE OCK’S SPEECH PATTERN!?

    7. Spidey takes over a supervillain prison, blackmails Jonah, destroys Shadowland, employs known criminals and it takes NEW YORK UNDER SIEGE FROM THE GREEN GOBLIN FOR THE AVENGERS TO GET INVOLVED!?

    8. Venom Symbiote. Nuff said. That story was REALLLLY stretching it.

    9. Selective continuity. Slott is a little bitch both in real life and in comics apparently because he will address bits of continuity that HELP his story, but ignore the dozen or so more stories of not just Spidey but THE ENTIRE MARVEL UNIVERSE to suit it. EVEN HIS OWN WRITING! He wrote “Ends of the Earth” and IN that Spidey story, which was only 25 issues prior to SSM by the way, Ock wants to slaughter 6 BILLION people on Earth, and wants to be bigger than Hitler, Stalin, and Polpot! NO! You don’t suddenly get to flip the script!

    10. Spidey murders and tortures people for science. The Avengers are aware of BOTH of these things and don’t think that is odd? Apparently not. Oh and two sentences from Black Widow isn’t a justification!

    11. It turns Black Cat into a low grade supervillain, EVEN THOUGH SHE TOO FOUGHT OCK MANY TIMES AND SHE DOESN’T RECOGNIZE HIM EVEN THOUGH HE USES THE SPIDER TENTACLES AND TOTALLY FIGHTS LIKE OCK IN SAID FIGHT!? Oh and when Peter returned and he told her, she didn’t believe it UNTIL he pretended to be Ock to prove a point, and yet she STILL went supervillain and STILL didn’t believe he was Ock, even though not 20 panels of comics ago SHE JUST SAID “OH! IT IS DOC OCK! IN SPIDER’S BODY! NO!”

    12. Mary Jane again, along with the rest of Marvel except Captain America (a guy who consistently suspected Peter was NOT Peter yet kept shrugging it off as “meh”) believe INSTANTLY that Doc Ock was in Peter’s body. BULL. THAT IS TAWDRY AT BEST!

    13. Instead of Peter’s return and being introspective of his loss, he gets chucked into a bad sitcom where we have a Mary Sue arrive in the form of Silk, he’s dating a midget, his broad of a business partner is trying to oust him, and despite being back, head of a company, and a grown ass man even in Danny Boy’s writings, he gets emasculated over 3 women who have more issues than Action Comics! BULL!

    14. Spider-Verse feels less like a big Spider-Man fiesta celebrating what made Spider-Man special and have Peter as the hero, but more another excuse for Dan Slott to give Silk a rug munch over Spider-Girl (a fan favourite and the longest continuous comic series starring a female heroine without breaks or reboots) and the Inferior Spider-Shit over Peter to the point where even WHEN Peter punches the living shit out of Ock for the upteenth time, you don’t really care!

    15. Every other member of the Sinister Six doesn’t recognize Ock’s speech patterns either even though THEY ALL WORKED WITH HIM FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND HE EVEN RECRUITED THEM FOR HIS SPIDER TEAM!?

    THE ONLY THING that is worse than this abortion of a story (that somehow fans lapped up and ate shit along the lines of Clone Saga (which people seem to like in hindsight thanks to Ben Reilly…) is One More Day. The ULTIMATE Spider-Man abortion (no pun intended) because that too bastardizes Peter as a character, refuses to acknowledge his growth, dumbs him down, and ignores the Back in Black subplot of “LET ME DIE! YOU ARE MORE IMPORTANT!” Since you already said enough about this piece of shit though, I will leave it beyond the fact that all they have done is constantly tease readers whenever Mary Jane shows up and go:

    “See that? See that? There she is! Want her! Go get her!”

    *yanks the football away last second*

    Yeah, even Dan Slott made the Lucy and the Football reference, and that jerk needs to get shot. Or liposuction. Either or, the dude’s extremely horrendous professional attitude towards fans concerning his work (getting people thrown out of cons, banned from forums, attacked on twitter, tumblr, and beyond) even if they SLIGHTLY made a negative comment. He was the ultimate troll and masturbated on the idea of pissing long time readers off, which he did and still is doing. Did he FORGET the only people READING comics ARE LONG TIME READERS!? YOU IDIOT!!!! Especially when he used the vaunted sales argument: “Well sales are up so I did something right…”

    Yeah, you realize that Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace made a TON of money, yet to fans it didn’t make it “good” because all they remember from it was Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHH!