Top 10 Worst Moments in Marvel Comics
Marvel Comics is responsible for a complete revitalization of the comic book industry in the 60s, some of the greatest and most beloved characters and superhero stories in history, and helping to convince the mainstream that comic books are a legitimate art form. Their power and greatness cannot be denied.
But, it also cannot be denied that every now and then Marvel has dropped the ball and released terrible comics. This is not a condemnation of Marvel comics or their characters. Instead, it is a condemnation of the bad storytellers, the bad artists, and the bad writers who betrayed the public’s trust by abusing the characters and creations that Marvel fans hold so dear.
In chronological order, here are ten of the all time worst moments in the history of Marvel Comics:
10. Rape of Ms. Marvel (October 1980)
Avengers Vol. 1 #200
By the end of the 70s, Carol Danvers, aka Ms. Marvel, had become one of Marvel’s flagship female characters. And all it took was one issue of The Avengers to ruin both her standing as a strong female character and her reputation. To make a long (and overly complicated) story short, Ms. Marvel became mysteriously pregnant and gave birth to a full term baby three days later. Then, the baby, named Marcus, mysteriously grew up almost instantly, and revealed that he had “seduced” his mother and impregnated her. And by “seduced” I mean “raped.” And what became of Ms. Marvels incestuous rape child? He grew up to be…Marcus! That’s right, he had gone back in time to impregnate his mother with himself. But the worst part of this travesty was that not only was Ms. Marvel, one of Marvel’s leading female characters, raped, she revealed that she enjoyed it and decided to stay with him afterwards. Hooray for feminism!
9. Clone Saga (October 1994 – December 1996)
Web of Spider-Man #117–129, Sensational Spider-Man #0–11, Amazing Spider-Man #394–418, Spider-Man #51–75, Spectacular Spider-Man #217–240, Spider-Man Unlimited (Vol. 1) #7–14
If you peruse this list, you may be surprised to find that many of the entries are related to the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. The first one to make an appearance is the dreadfully convoluted and stupidly executed Clone Saga, a storyline that ran through all of the Spider-Man titles for two years. It all started with a storyline back in the 70s where the villain named the Jackal cloned Peter Parker and his deceased girlfriend Gwen Stacy. Spidey fought his clone, won, and went off none the wiser. Decades later, this storyline was brought back to life when it was revealed that not only had the clone survived his encounter with Spidey, but that the clone, now known as the Scarlet Spider, was the real Peter Parker and that the Peter Parker that the comics had followed for decades was the clone! Needless to say, this angered most, if not all, of Spider-Man’s fans.
So, what was supposed to be a short arc that only lasted a few issues ran for two long, painful years as Marvel tried to backtrack and restore the status quo. Along the way, it was revealed that, surprise-surprise, the Scarlet Spider WAS the clone and Peter Parker WAS the original. Throw in the clumsy resurrection of Aunt May after she had previously died (THAT Aunt May was ALSO another clone); a couple hundred more Spider-Man clones that Jackal just happened to have in his basement; and the revelation that the entire thing had been orchestrated by Norman Osborn, the Green Goblin, who was believed to have died decades ago- and you have one of the most infuriating stories ever told in the entire history of the comic book medium. And the kicker? Afterwards, everybody acted like nothing had happened and the plot line was never mentioned again. Marvel had literally wasted two years of their readers’ lives with nothing to show for it.
8. Iron Man: The Crossing (September 1995 – February 1996)
Avengers #390-395; Avengers: The Crossing #1; Force Works #16-20; Iron Man #320-325; War Machine #20-23; Avengers: Timeslide #1; Age of Innocence: The Rebirth of Iron Man #1
Retcon (retroactive continuity) is a literary device used to change previously established facts in fiction and is commonly used in comic book series with long histories because “the plurality of writers who contribute stories can often create situations that demand clarification or revision” (wikipedia). As a general rule of thumb, whenever Marvel retcons bad things happen…as in bad comics are released upon unsuspecting fans. So, in the mid-90s when Marvel decided to reveal that Iron Man was a traitor who had worked as a sleeper agent for Kang The Conqueror for years, you can bet that there would be problems. First, he goes on a killing spree, killing the female Yellowjacket, Amanda Chaney, and Marilla, the nanny of Quicksilver’s daughter. The Avengers decide that the best thing to do is recruit a teen-age Tony Stark from another timeline, have him steal the Iron Man suit, and fight the now evil Tony Stark. In the ensuing fight, the real Tony Stark sacrifices himself to stop Kang. For a while, the teenage Tony Stark was the official Iron Man… and what a fiasco THAT was. The new Tony looked ridiculous with an atrocious new set of armor. But what really alienated fans was the idea that Tony Stark, a character that they had come to know and love for decades, was a traitor. In fact, this was a blatant slap in the face to his fans. Thankfully, the entire debacle was completely retconned, replacing Teen Tony with Good Tony. Unfortunately, in order to do so, they had to rely on the event that takes the next spot on this list.
7. Heroes Reborn (1996 – 1997)
Fantastic Four Vol. 2 #1-12, Avengers Vol. 2 #1-12, Captain America Vol. 2 #1-12, Iron Man Vol. 2 #1-12
The 90s were a dark, dark time for comic books. Gone were the days of cheerful heroes helping innocent bystanders and fighting giant monsters. In the 90s, everybody was a dark, brooding anti-hero. Comics became grim, dark, and ultraviolent.
It was in the midst of this creative quagmire that Marvel, in the face of bankruptcy, decided to reboot their entire universe in the Heroes Reborn crossover series that ran from 1996 to 1997. Essentially, Marvel trapped four of their most famous properties, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, Captain America, and Iron Man, in a pocket dimension after their apparent deaths at the hands of the psionic entity Onslaught. This allowed their writers to go back and tell brand new stories with these characters that they wouldn’t have been able to within mainstream Marvel continuity.
It was a decent idea. However, they decided to outsource these stories to former employees Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld who turned them into over-the-top, shameless parodies of themselves. The series were beset by bad stories and some of the worst art to ever disgrace the medium. It was so bad that Marvel essentially had to reboot their universe AGAIN just so they could restore everything to the status quo that was enjoyed before Heroes Reborn began. The silver lining to this abomination was that it succeeded in restoring Marvel’s sales and saved the company from a financial meltdown. All it took was a year of pure pain and agony on the part of the fans.
6. Chuck Austen’s X-Men (2002-2004)
Uncanny X-Men #410-441
Yes, ALL of Chuck Austen’s X-Men run. It is literally impossible to pick just one thing that was wrong with it. Where do we begin? How about the horrific characterizations? How about the blatant misogyny? How about the fact that it followed one of the greatest X-Men runs of all time (Grant Morrison) with stories that were designed to retcon it all? How about when Jubilee and a bunch of other X-Men were CRUCIFIED by a group of radicals who wanted to discredit the Catholic church by making Nightcrawler the Pope and killing people with disintegrating communion wafers? Or, sticking with Nightcrawler, how about the time when it was revealed that he was literally the son of a demon named Azazel who gave birth to him so he could teleport him to earth?
No, I’ve got it! It would have to be the revelation concerning Xorn, a supporting cast member from Morrison’s run who had healing powers fueled by literally having a star in his head. For those who haven’t read Morrison’s run (and you all should), it was revealed that Xorn was none other than Magneto who was trying to infiltrate the school! In the end, Magneto kills Phoenix (for the umpteenth time) and gets his head lopped off by Wolverine. Marvel, horrified at the idea of losing one of their central villains, retconned it all. How? They said that Xorn (who remember, wasn’t real but a disguise used by Magneto) had a twin brother who infiltrated the X-Men DISGUISED as Magneto. So, in summation, we have the twin of a person who never existed in the first place infiltrate the X-Men disguised as Magneto disguised as… his real identity… Make sense? No? Don’t worry. Nobody else can figure it out, either. At least Marvel got Magneto back for several more decades of milking.
5. Sins Past (August 2004 – January 2005)
The Amazing Spider-Man #509-514
Oh, Spider-Man fans… Why must Marvel continue to abuse you? Gwen Stacy, one of Spider-Man’s first girlfriends, was a fan favorite for decades. Her murder at the hands of the Green Goblin is said to have single-handedly ended the Silver Age of Comics. It was a tragic scene that helped define Spider-Man for a new generation. Even after Spidey hooked up with Mary Jane, there was still a massive amount of care and sympathy for Gwen, solidifying her status as one of the most-loved characters in the entire Marvel Universe. So, of course, Marvel decided that the best thing to do was to rewrite her past so that Norman Osborn, the Green Goblin, had slept with her. Oh, but he just didn’t sleep with her…he knocked her up with TWINS that she gave birth to in France. After deciding to come clean with Peter and raise the kids with him, Norman killed her. Why? So he could raise them himself! Because of Norman’s bizarre blood, the kids aged faster than normal so that they were full-grown adults before they reached 10 years old! What does Norman do with them? He makes them attack Spider-Man!
Sins Past single-handedly ruined the character of Gwen Stacy for untold numbers of fans. Her tragic and emotional death was cheapened for pure shock value. But this would not be the only time that Marvel would intentionally ruin or disgrace one of Spidey’s relationships with a loved one. We’ll get to THAT horrible story in a bit. Image from http://www.weeklycrisis.com/
4. Civil War (June 2006 – January 2007)
Civil War #1-7
It started as a relatively good idea: a schism occurs in the superhero community when a group of heroes accidentally blow up a large part of Stamford, Connecticut during a fight, killing over 600 civilians, including 60 children. Heroes were faced with a daunting option: register their identities with the government and become federal employees in order to prevent such a calamity from happening again or face prosecution. Half of the community, led by Iron Man, advocated registration, believing it to be the moral and responsible solution. The other half, led by Captain America, believed that forced registration was a violation of their civil liberties and revealing their identities could put their friends and families at risk. It was a difficult and emotional issue for everybody involved.
There was no easy answer or solution to the problem… at least… there wasn’t until Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic created a robotic Thor clone which attacked the anti-registration camp, killing the superhero Goliath in the process. And then, instead of trying to persuade and convince the anti-registration people to register, Iron Man and his followers hunted them down like animals, arrested them, and threw them in an unbreakable prison in another dimension without a fair trial or due process. Not to mention that the pro-registration camp convinced Spider-Man to reveal his identity as Peter Parker publicly, leading to his Aunt May getting shot (which subsequently leads to the next entry on this list). As the icing on the cake, after Captain America heroically surrenders to prevent any more violence or bloodshed, he is shot and killed on the steps of a courthouse.
I can’t emphasize enough how badly Civil War was received and how it almost irrevocably damaged Marvel Comics. To this day, there are people who refuse to forgive Iron Man for his betrayal. What should have been an even-sided, philosophical, and heart-stirring storyline became mean-spirited, dark, and had characters that people had known and loved for decades turn on each other. The Marvel staff completely isolated their fans by taking Iron Man’s pro-registration side during the debate, alienating thousands of readers. For many, Civil War is also considered to be a turning point in Marvel’s history…and not a good one at that.
3. One More Day (November 2007 – January 2008)
The Amazing Spider-Man #544, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24, The Sensational Spider-Man (vol. 2) #41, Amazing Spider- Man #545.
If I ranked this list in order of the most hated, most ill conceived, most badly written, and poorly received moment in Marvel history, One More Day would be on the top. There is NO competition. For those of you who don’t read comics, let me try and break this down for you. Anyone who has seen the Spider-Man movies knows that Spider-Man’s true love was Mary Jane Watson. It’s been that way for almost 4 decades. She was among the most beloved members of the Marvel universe for her personality, spunk, and everlasting devotion to her husband Peter Parker. The two had weathered countless storms together, yet had always come out stronger as a result. Their wedding was one of the biggest Marvel events in history. For years, Peter Parker and Mary Jane were THE comic book couple, probably only rivaled in popularity by Superman and Lois Lane in DC Comics.
One day, Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada decided that he didn’t like the idea of Spider-Man being married. He believed that being single was essential to Spider-Man’s character (never mind the fact that he had been married to Mary Jane for almost TWENTY YEARS). So what did he do? He made Spider-Man make a deal with the Devil to trade his marriage to save the life of Aunt May who had been shot in the aftermath of Civil War. Let me say that again in case you didn’t grasp the infuriating implications of that last sentence. Spider-Man, one of the ultimate paragons of personal responsibility and righteousness in ALL of comics, made a deal… with the DEVIL! The deal was to sacrifice his MARRIAGE all so that he could save the life of his ELDERLY Aunt May. (Side Note: He had previously contacted Aunt May in the spirit world who told him to let her go since she was old, had a good life, and wanted Peter to be happy.)
It was almost universally panned by critics. The fan backlash was the stuff of legends. Joe Quesada became one of the most hated people in the industry, even getting booed off the stage at conventions. But one of the worst things about One More Day was that it was a key example of a disturbing trend among comic book companies: editors using their positions to ghostwrite their favorite comics. In fact, many of the entries on this list were the result of editorial mandates. Among them, One More Day reigns supreme. No comic company is perfect. Even their rival company, DC Comics, has their fair share of terrible moments (but that’s a list for another day…). But no matter what they do, they can take comfort in the fact that they didn’t put out One More Day. One More Day is the ultimate bad comic book moment.
2. Ultimates 3 (2008)
The Ultimates 3 #1-5
The Ultimate Marvel imprint, started in 2000, was intended to be a brand new Marvel Universe free from decades of comic continuity. It was designed as a starting point for new comic book readers who didn’t want to be bogged down or confused with story and character histories. Their main series included Ultimate versions of the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, and Spider-Man (easily the most popular and successful title from the Ultimate line). But the Ultimate Universe also had their own version of the Avengers known as the Ultimates. The Ultimates were the subjects of three short stand-alone series, creatively titled The Ultimates, The Ultimates 2, and The Ultimates 3. The first two were wild, run-away successes, reinventing their characters for a new generation and creating some of the most iconic moments of the new millennium (“Does this “A” look like it stands for France?). And then Ultimates 3 came along.
In an incredibly convoluted and confusing plot, the Scarlet Witch was assassinated, the Ultimates squared off with android duplicates of themselves, and Quicksilver was supposedly killed (more on that in the next entry). Oh… and somehow Doctor Doom was the genius behind it all. Sound cool? It isn’t. The entire series is plagued with horrible art, terrible writing, abysmal dialogue, and grotesque characterizations. Many people think of the Ultimates 3 as being the start of the downfall of the Ultimate Universe. But it would take our number one spot to finish the job.
1. Ultimatum (November 2008 – July 2009)
Ultimatum #1-5
This is it, folks. This is widely considered to be THE event that killed the Ultimate Universe line. Think about that for a second…these five comics ended a ten year long comic book line. How? Let’s break it down:
Many of the Ultimates most beloved characters are killed off panel.
- Half of the characters in the Ultimate Universe were killed, including, but not limited to: Daredevil, Cyclops, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, Emma Frost, Hank Pym, Juggernaut, Magneto, Professor X, Thor, Wasp, and Wolverine.
- Over-the-top and offensive violence: the Wasp was cannibalized by the Blob, Magneto snaps Professor X’s neck, Madrox creates clones which he turns into suicide bombers, Wolverine has the adamantium stripped from his bones.
- Scientific inaccuracies: Magneto reverses the Earth’s magnetic poles… no wait… the planet’s axis… no wait… the magnetic poles…. no wait… who cares? They’re the same thing, right?
The less you know about this insult of a comic, the better. The only thing you need to know is that Magneto tries to destroy the world in revenge for the deaths of his kids, the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. But wait! Quicksilver is revealed to be alive! But the real question is…who cares! Writer Jeph Loeb destroyed almost everything that people loved about the Ultimates Universe. The damage was so massive that they had to RE- LAUNCH the Ultimate Universe. This comic has left fans scratching and banging their heads against the wall, wondering why Marvel would ever print this abominable excuse for a story. Image: http://www.weeklycrisis.com/
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I was fully with this list, and even enjoying and agreeing with it, until I came to your entry about Civil War. You’ve got to be kidding me. Here’s a couple starting points toward my disagreement.
1. The Thor clone was out of control, and Tony Stark seriously regretted that Goliath had died. Which is why he bought the entire plot of land so they could bury Goliath’s gigantic body.
2. Tony Stark DID try to negotiate with the anti-registration forces, and what happened? Captain America shorted out his armor and bashed him with his shield, which lead to a huge fight.
Aside from that, it was a great storyline exhibiting the personal beliefs of superpowered characters when their freedom itself is threatened. Tony behaved like he normally does in an extreme situation, where the ends justify the means in his mind. It was dark and violent because it was dealing with politics and basic freedoms, and some people will defend that accordingly.
Aside from that, what is this “irrevocable damage” it did to Marvel?
Was it because it was the highest selling comic of 2006? That’s gotta be a killer for the entire company.
Civil War being on this list just makes no sense.
Well…I’m sorry that you disagree. But there are multitudes of comic book fans who hated that crossover. And just because something sells well doesn’t mean that it’s good.
I hope that you enjoyed the rest of the list, though.
Man, I have got to disagree with you in regards to Civil War. After Clor killed Giant Man, Stark used him again and he went after Black Panther and Storm in other comics. Guess Clor is a racist android or something.
And let’s not forget that Tony augmented his side by using super villains enslaved with nanites that would produce tremendous pain or nerve damage if they got out of line. Used them against other heroes.
The writing was sloppy, which is typical of Millar. Why, exactly, did Maria Hill attack Captain America again? The Act hadn’t even gone into effect yet. Oh yeah, because Millar needed some reason for Cap to join the other side.
And you skipped over the whole imprisoning super heroes without due process part.
The icing on the cake was when Captain America gets tackled by the World Trade Center heroes. That was just so over the top. Millar is the antithesis of subtle.
And just because something sells well does not mean it is good. Look at the Transformers movies.
Finally, I think Mighty God King summed up how most people felt about Civil War with his parodies:
http://mightygodking.com/index.php/i-dont-need-your-civil-war/
Ah, come on, Civil War was terrible, it’s just that Millar put enough of his “kewl sh*t ™” to make you think it isn’t; but analyse it for a bit and you’ll see. Almost everyone’s out of character, they just behave that way to take the story from A to B to C, Spider-Man acts like an idiot (“Tony is right, I have to expose my identity! Oh wait, they shot Aunt May! I didn’t see that one coming! Tony is wrong!”), even when the story tries to be clever it does it in the stupidest and most obvious way possible (Daredevil handing the coin to Tony when he’s captured. “Cause he’s like Judas, eh? Get it? Eh?”), the very notion of a Thor cyborg murderclone being a major plot point is stupid, and sort of pulled out of thin air. The “political alegory” that a lot of fans of the series defend (because that’s what makes Marvel comics good: Political allegory) is ham-fisted at best, and even then, any allegory goes to hell the moment that the story goes “then they resolved it by punching”. Also, am I to understand that the series ends because Captain effin’ America just gives up? That’s terrible beyond words.
Yes, it sold lots, so what? That doesn’t make it good. By that logic, everything popular is automatically the best and something less so is by definition the worst. By that logic, Michael Bay is better than, say, David Lynch. That’s shorthand thinking. No, I’d rather be critical.
Don’t forget they had to explain how Sue left Reed at least twice, and there was also a scene where Peter and Tony have a “discussion” about how Peter’s broken arm mysteriously healed in about two hours’ comic time, and then they turn and look directly at the reader for a panel, which even Wizard pointed out as a “You satisfied with that, fans??” moment.
It started out good and was an interesting twist to the Marvel Universe that hadn’t been explored since the 80s X-Men run: Are Superhumans/Mutants living weapons and should they be registered? Too bad it got mired in that British wrieter Millar’s personal anti-American views.
I also deeply resented Stark for his actions in the Civil War. Hunting down his old buddies because what they were doing was “illegal”. Jaywalking is illegal, you shouldn’t be killed or thrown in a max jail in another dimension for it. And of course, this embracing of totalitarian gov’t allowed Osborne to take over Shield.
I can’t believe you can forgive the death of Goliath because Stark “bought the entire parcel of land” to bury his body. Well I guess That makes it all better. Firstly you know that he’s a billionaire for whom buying a 60′ x 20′ patch of dirt would not be a problem. Secondly, I remember that scene, and I really don’t remember them saying anything like “hey don’t worry, Tony bought the site”. Are you sure that actually happened?
I just want to clear that the irreparable damage caused by Civil War was very real and Marvel is surely still having to deal with the fallout.
It soured things so badly that even now, with stellar artwork all around (unheard of, and for years I raged about the mismanagement of art assignments) I refuse to get more than a trickle of titles from them. In fact, last year I very nearly quit comic collecting altogether, that’s how discouraged I was. And that’s something I’d never even considered before, not in 40 years of collecting.
And some of this stuff I refuse to get is drawn by artists- John Cassaday, for instance- whose work I have always made a point of buying regardless of writer or title.
You say it bro
This was confusing but good! Where I’m from (australia) comics aren’t big. Infact I’ve never even seen a comic aside from in newspapers on Sunday’s =p
Thank you!!
Oh darling you are so wrong. Im Australian too and I can mention about .. four comic book stores in Melbourne alone. Also there is oz Comic con starting this year and Armageddon and supanova are also comic book related cons. Comics are just as big here as anywhere, your just not into them enough to find them is all.
Lawyered
I could easily go on about several of these fiascos, and likely have. We could dither and dicker about what goes where, but that’s just playing with pennies.
There’s one event that isn’t on this list that I think sorely deserves to be – The Bitchslap Heard Round the World.
While in the middle of a psychotic episode, Hank (Ant Man et al) Pym backhands his wife Janet (The Wasp), and she goes down like a sack of batteries. By accident. Jim Shooter, who wrote the story, has stated that clearly. It was never supposed to be more than that, something he would regret when he came out of it, and not anything indicative of an abusive personality.
But from then on it has been the central characteristic of the guy. No matter how many times they try to make him into a major player, some writer’s gotta do a story where someone throws it in his face, and we’re down the road to penitence and hand-wringing again.
Dan Slott’s done a great job of rehabilitating him, while still leaving the part where he’s a broken guy with episodes of psychosis. But I read the books with hunched shoulders, just waiting for someone to call him a wife-beater.
True…but that HAS led to some decent stories and character development…the other entries on this list…not so much…
Thanks for checking in, Vinnie!
“True…but that HAS led to some decent stories and character development…the other entries on this list…not so much…”
One More Day led to Brand New Day and, in turn, Big Time, both of which have been received exceptionally well by critics.
Civil War brought us Avengers: The initiative and in due course Avengers Academy, both phenomenally well reviewed series.
Ultimatum, awful as it was, did revolutionize the Ultimate line by letting it finally seperate itself from 616 standards by basically upending the entire concept. Now the Ultimate line is getting some of the best writing and reviews it’s had since the days it all started out.
How are you defining interesting? Pym hasn’t actually gone in any direction he wasn’t already headed in. He just does it without Jan now. And I don’t believe for a second that Shooter didn’t have this in mind from the beginning. It has his fingerprints all over it.
As for the Avengers Initiative, I just want to point out that nearly every superhero is now an Avenger, including a number of villains. Okay. How is that interesting? Do we really need X-Men on the team? I guess we’ll see soon enough.
Yeah, they shook up the Ultimate universe, but what good did it do? They could have explored new directions without trashing everything they’d built up to that point. What good are reviews if the fans they betrayed to get them are no longer reading?
The Thor clone was out of control, and Tony Stark seriously regretted that Goliath had died. Which is why he bought the entire plot of land so they could bury Goliathâ??s gigantic body.
And then Tony went and used Clor again, who tried to kill Storm and Black Panther.
Think about this; Tony took the DNA of what was supposed to be one of his best friends and created a cyborg killing machine…and after it already killed someone, he decided to use it again, because this time he was sure all the bugs had been worked out. Sure, Skrull Pym helped, but I reiterate: he used Clor again after he had already killed someone!
There is a reason Marvel had to wipe out five years of Tony’s memory to make him likeable again. They essentially had to do a Heroes Reborn on him all over again because fans had grown to dislike him so much, and had to find some way to get guys like Thor to work with him again.
That said, Thor delivering the godlike smackdown on Stark afterwards was epic.
You’re VERY wrong about the art in Ultimates 3, but you’re VERY right about the writing. What did Jeph Loeb do in the 80′s that made him so beloved that he is still gets work while being the worst writer in comic books…?
Agree 100%. …Loeb’s stories always fall flat with unimaginative and uninspiring “twists” to wrap up the wonky plotlines everyone was trusting would make sense eventually. Every comic he’s written in the past 10 years makes me feel I’ve wasted my time by the end. I just keep hoping!
And Yes, Joe Maduira is an incredible artist. He’s widely known as one of the industry’s best for his understanding of anatomy, appeal and distinct style, light, perspective, composition, and acting. …and yep, illustrators are in fact actors at the end of the day… Nathanael you dropped the ball on that point.
At least Loeb can’t be blamed for the failure of Heroes, even if he did do the last minute s2 finale rewrite on the eve of the writer’s strike that copied “Who Shot JR?” Jeph was already out of the loop by the time s3 started going every which way but loose and the actors refusal to shoot scenes, demanding the writers come down and pay attention to continuity like they had.
I will disagree. I found the art in Ultimate 3 to be unforgivable. The art overall was very muddle. It looked like digital art and that wasn’t working. The main problem was really that so far the entire Ultimate universe had a certain type of art style. Then Ultimates 3 comes in with characters with overdeveloped physiques. This did not work. You can’t just up and change art styles like that.
My main beef was the ignorance of established costumes. Everyone just looked like their 616 counterparts. It took all the originality established and in combo with the writing, just ignored it.
The Ultimate line has spent all this time reversing the damage.
But the art was trash for the series.
Thanks for a GREAT list.
How do I know it’s great? Because you took a subject that I have no interest in and made it interesting and engaging. Well-written and sourced, you obviously know your stuff, and your passion for the subject comes through. Very nicely done.
That’s one of the finest compliments that I’ve ever received! Thank you!
Okay, I am going to take a moment out from my Civil War rants to state that this was a great list. Part of what I liked about it was how you also added an item from the 1980 as well. It shows that bad comics were not invented in the nineties.
I would love to see you do a worst of DC list, but you might have to wait a year to see how bad their September reboot really is to see just how high or low it belongs on such a list.
I’ve literally been checking the comments every day to see if people wanted me to do a DC list.
I’ve seriously considered it.
However…it’s up to the fine folks at Top Tenz to give me the go-ahead.
I’d be willing to write it, of course.
I want to add in, DO THE DC TOP 10 WORST MOMENTS
! I hope my comment can spur the heads of toptenz
Great article. I agree 100% — everyone of the storylines you mentioned was both a creative and logical abomination.
Regrettably, since the creative titans who were responsible for establishing the Marvel Universe in the first place (primarily, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Bill Everett, Roy Thomas, and Steve Ditko) have retired or otherwise diminished their input, there has been precious little creative talent to replace them. Some exceptions include Len Wein, Jim Starlin, Walt Simonson, Frank Miller, Chris Claremont, and John Byrne, and probably a handful of others who don’t immediately spring to mind.
Consequently, nearly every change of course that has occurred since the late 1970s has been a bad idea. Again, I think you did an excellent job identifying the most egregious examples. A couple more general ones to consider:
1. The frighteningly sexist notion that woman who gain great power are wholly incapable of weilding it without cracking up or melting down; for example, Jean Grey and the Scarlet Witch.
2. The deification of the Hulk. For the 1st 25 years or so of the Hulk’s existence, he was a little bigger than the Thing, and, at the top of his rage, appeared to be somewhat, but not hugely, stronger than Thor and Hercules (who were clearly equals). The results of fights among the Hulk, a hammerless Thor, and Hercules were always inconclusive. Since then, lesser creative talendts have decided to increase the Hulk’s strength so much that now he is virtually unbeatable and thus totally tedious and uninteresting. He has also lost all the charm that resulted from his earlier fundamental kindness and desire to be left alone.
3. The imasculation of the Fantastic Four: Once upon a time, the FF was Marvel’s #2 title. Mr. Fantastic was not only a brilliant scientist but also a highly capable leader, strategist, and field general. The Thing was almost as strong as the Hulk, Thor, and Hercules (and about even with the Sub-Mariner); thus, he was generally portrayed as being among Marvel’s most powerful heroes, which combined with his spirit and determination, made him a highly-compelling character. For some reason, Marvel made the decision to reduce Mr. Fantastic to a scientist only, introducing numerous storylines questioning not only his leadership skills but his mental toughness as well. Even as a scientist, he had to take a back-seat to Victor Von Doom and Tony Stark. It also introduced numerous, frequently un-intersting, characters who were stronger than the Thing. Thus, in contrast to the 60s and 70, the FF now has a 2nd-rate, weak leader and a 3rd-rate strongman, along with a couple hangers on who rarely do much of anything. So, why are they relevant?
4. The diminshment of Daredevil. What a great idea to have a superhero who brought criminals to justice and then, in his civilian identity, work to ensure those same criminals received due process of law! That was a totally unique concept that made Daredevil something special. Once he lost the Matt Murdock, criminal defense attorney, aspect of his character, he became just another Batman knock-off.
I could go on, but I’m sure you could have too. Keep up the good work.
“The frighteningly sexist notion that woman who gain great power are wholly incapable of weilding it without cracking up or melting down; for example, Jean Grey and the Scarlet Witch. ”
Storm has always had incredibly high power levels. Likewise Rachel Grey has managed for quite a while without going insane.
It’s more an idea of the concept of power corrupting in general. Have you forgotten Professor X going off the deep end and creating Onslaught? Or the insanity of Korvac?
You obviously haven’t been reading Waid’s Daredevil. It did away with all the dark stuff, making way for a fun and entertaining DD once again.
Most of the points you made are valid. I do think that the idea that most of the changes of in marvel since the late 70s are bad ones and there were no decent creators after that era ( the exception you noted were all from that time) is flawed. I do think that comics just as any ongoing creative form does evolve. In the eighties and nineties as well as in the 21st century, we have seen writers and artists take comics to new audiences with solid storytelling. Peter Davids Hulk of the 80′s and early 1990s spring to mind as well as Louise Simonsons work on teenage superheroes in the 80s, something that even the great Chris Claremont couldnt pull off.
I started reading comics as a child in the 70s and though I dont read as much as before I still appreciate the work I see from a younger generation of creative talent. Good work is still being done.
That being said, Jeph Loebs work on the Ultimate universe was terrible.
Great list! I want a DC moments too!
Thank you for writing this article. I’ve never agreed so strongly with a article about comics. I agree with every one of your choices but I would put the Spider-Clone Saga as number 1. Please do a DC list. I’ve given a lot of thought and can recommend The Death of Superman, Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Millenium, The Trial of Barry Allen, Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis and Batman R.I.P. Dishonorable mention to the long haired Superman and the Blue Energy Superman. I recently posted a list of the worst Batman stories of all time on Amazon.com if you want to consult that.
Hey .. I actually liked sins past.. It was kind of shocking.. liked gwen a lot myself.. but yeah it was ok.. does not deserve to be ranked here..
Civil war was a literary abortion.
I agree with 8 out of 10.
Sins Past wasn’t a terrible story. It wasn’t amazing, but it did hold my interest, and reminded me that nobody is a saint. And it explained a big leftover hole in the story.
And Civil War was really enjoyable. It single-handedly brought me and a few friends back into Marvel comics. Was it perfect? Nah, but it was pretty darn exciting, and had a lot of solid philosophical debate.
For me, the worst is Xorn. C’mon people, at least have stuff vaguely make sense.
Marvel Secret Wars from the 80′s is not here? Should have at least been top five. That was the biggest pile of garbage ever conceived and delivered by Marvel. I don’t think I ever bought another Marvel book after that, or very few.
Secret Wars I was okay, throwaway entertainment with fantastic art.
Secret Wars II was a publisher in melt down mode, with Al Milgrom (!?!?) art.
Civil War was awesome
Ultimatum definitely needed to be on this list. It would be in my top ten to. But…your reasoning is somewhat Bizzare…you do know that the series was created to end the ultimate line since the titles were already in a sales slump. It didnt some how magically come along and ruin the ultimate universe. It was literally put into motion to kill of many of the characters so that it would have a fresh start. Now with Cival War. It cant be among the worst storylines as its been one of the most well received book of the 2000′s. Okay so sales dont really matter however…I lived in America and I now live in the UK. That book is constantly sold out in comic book stores or regular book stores over here. Its very much in Demand as a popular story even in an international country. Not to mention that Marvel Ultimate Alliance was based on the Civil War series. The video game follows the series almost page for page. Marvel Would NEVER make a game based on an unpopular book or a negatively received book. It’s quite the opposite. But asides from Civil War everything else deserves to be on this list.
If you really want to know Tony’s real motivation behind Civil War, you have to read Civil War: Frontline #11. Tony never intended to keep the Superhuman Registration Act alive. It was a ploy to keep the heat off of the superheroes community by giving the public the belief that superheroes would now be policed. What he was really doing was manipulating events so that he could get enough funding from the government to create the Negative Zone prison 42 under the guise of using it to lock up heroes who refused to register which he did for a time to put doubts to rest. He then put his next step into play by creating a fake conflict with Atlantis that he believed would reunite the heroes at which point he would hand out amnesty to all the imprisoned heroes like it was going out of style while keeping his large interdimensional prison in which to permanently house the world’s super villains preventing another Stamford from happening. But since no one bothered to read Front Line, the whole thing was forgotten and Tony ended up looking like a huge jerk.
I think this list needs to be updated and add “Death of Spider-Man” storyline to the top of this list.
You kill off your top selling character in the ultimate line c’mon marvel what were you thinking.
Side note I do agree with one more day being here made me stop reading Spider-man in the regular continuity.
I think most people would strongly disagree with you. I feel it was one of the strongest stories and also the issues resulting from it were also very well received. Honestly it was how Spider-man should have died.
I have to agree with ultimatum it basically destroyed the Ultimate comics line. Also hated ultimate xmen absolute power. Absolutely.
People don’t understand… The whole reason Ultimatum was written was to disband/get-rid-of the ultimate universe that is the sole reason it exists.
Many of us do but still agree that it was handled terribly and Jeph Loeb was definitely the absolute worst choice to handle something of that magnitude. What he did ruined the Ultimate U ( except Ult. Spider-Man, of course) for years with the titles just recovering with Jonathan Hickman’s short run on Ultimates. I think we can all agree that it was an abomination and Ultimate X sucks.
Good list. A little suprised you didn’t have some kind of honorable mention i and how writers involving the Juggernaut and how every writer has belittled the character further and further over the years. Even cyclops beat him singlehandidly in a four part mini series. Just something I’ve noticed.
civil war on here? really??
come on….your really reaching. civil war was a great marvel story.
civil war???
really????
thats more of a personal choice than the actual story being awful.
i (and a gaggle of other marvel fans) enjoyed the hell out of civil war.
so….yeah……… take that off and replace it to what led to the godawful “heroes reborn” storyline.
THE ONSLAUGHT SAGA.
that deserves to be there.
def not civil war though. that was a awesome series. stark’s always been a douche. if he ever gets obsessed with a humanoid alien he would be marvels lex luthor.
Pretty interesting list and I can understand these feelings, because nowadays, Marvel is destroying all the characters I love. Hulk killed Bruce Banner (!)(Bravo, huge accomplishment) Cain Marko is just a human at the moment, Nightcrawler is dead, Deadpool is an average, healed human and the list could go on. Hope they will restart the whole thing soon, cause I can’t accept all this anymore. Because years ago, I loved Marvel. Now, I’m like: Oh, please, don’t make anything worse, please, you’ve done enough damage already, please, it’s enough.
Since when Jim Lee makes bad art? You’re crazy! But I agree with the most of this list, specially all about spidey…
Hmmmm… gotta go with the others who said “Civil War” was too good a story to be included on this list. The guy who sais “Secret Wars” was out to lunch too. It was a classic and responsible for Venom. “Secret Wars II” on the other hand, now that was a real stinker. The other notable omission on the list was the “Cage” many series. It was a racist depiction of a character that had long developed past the caricature stage. I know it was pretty much summarily ignored, but I believe it WAS considered in continuity. It was worse than bad art and horrific writing…the depiction actually made me angry.
I agree about one more day! Worst story ever. Made me stop reading marvel altogether. Ruined spiderman forever. Now reading DC. The new 52 not so bad.
I’m a Spidey Fan first and foremost, but he has had a lot of stinkers. Sins Past was written okay, it was just pointless, and trashed an important character for no reason at all. I can name several stories worse, heck the 90s had all sorts of crap worse ( Rob Liefeld anyone?” but nothing with as much impact as One More Day, and Civil War.
I loved the Clone-Saga! Ben Riley is BA!
I completely disagree with Civil War. It was actually one of the better summer-crossover stories in recent years, and raised a lot of interesting questions and ideas. I do think that the pacing of the story felt a little rushed. Had they taken a little more time to iron-out some of the kinks in the story it would rank as one of the all time greats in Marvel’s history. Since they didn’t then it obviously fell short of that, but it was still enjoyable and no where near worst of all time.
In fact, Civil War is the only questionable inclusion on this list. Replace Civil War with Jeph Loebs “Rulk” and it may well be a definitive”worst of” list.
The Red Hulk could have been so much better. I was incredibly let down…
I thought so too, that’s why I stuck with it past World War Hulks and frankly, I’m glad I did. Who knew that a simple writing change from Loeb to Jeff Parker would make such a difference. Thanks to Parker, we got stories like “Hulk of Arabia” and “Circle of Four”. Red Hulk, like any other chatacter, can be great in the right hands.
I agree with everything, but i would put the Gwen thing and one more day in 1st and 2nd place, with 3rd being ultimatum, these people singlehandedly ruined spiderman for me, my absolute favorite superhero since forever, i was so freakin disappinted with all of those storylines that i honestly cant enjoy spiderman comics anymore, and on another note i seriously hope they dont bring that Gwen bull to these new spiderman movies and i’m waiting impatiently for Marvel to finally retcon all of the Bull**** they have been putting in the comics
*The lead ups to Civil War were pretty bad. Marvel pitched “a fair and balanced” divide between the heroes and then turned Iron man into Marvel-nazi before the event even started. One issue of Spidey leading up to the event featured Stark paying Titanium Man to attack Congress to fear monger the SHRA into law. There were some great moments in Civil War, and some great followups (wolverine refusing to fight ,opting instead to track down the New Warriors Killer, Moon Knight not wanted by either side, The first class whupping Thor gave Iron man on his return). I’d certainly place it higher than Secret Invasion….where a Skrull posing as Elektra INSTANTLY turns all heroes against each other because if the skrulls can pose as a Z list human assassin, they can pose as anyone. Especially magic undetectable skrulls who only care about discrediting hank pym for the umpteenth time and making Spider-Woman cry. And double poop on bendis for once again, selling a pitch instead of crafting a story.
*Shadowland aka, The event that destroyed all the goodwill on Daredevil
*Marvel Divas. Sex and City storytelling suddenly meets the all new best of friends super ladies, somehow alienating all forms of “potential new readers” at once.
*Marvel once turned the Punisher black in the 90′s, so he could team up with Luke Cage.
* JMS on Spider-Man. As fugly as the books were before him, Sins Past,the Other,Spider-Totem, and One More Day all managed to make me hate marvel’s flagship character. JMS then claims editorial tomfoolery, washes his hands of One More Day and repeats the process across town on Superman and Wonder Woman. go go good team.
*Jeph Loeb is the lifetime achivement award of horrible books.
Secret Invasion was stupid because the premise let you believe that an Alist Hero could be turned but that NEVER happened…WTF. Also the Wolverine story in Civil War was by far the best one… Not only because an explosion widdles him down to his bare adamantium skeleton and you see him regenerate in the next 3 panels but he was going after the real issue… The killer. Why blame every superhero for ones careless mistake it’s times like these Wolverines cynicism pays off.
It’s because of events like Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Siege that made Civil War bad. The whole thing interfered with Bendis’s plans so everything afterwards became a huge cleanup job to return everything to the “heroic age”. What really irks me about Secret invasion was that it was the perfect opportunity to create a compelling story using a character that was going through similar changes at the time, Spider-Man. Revealing Peter as a Skrull would have been a better fix than OMD, and it could lead to terrific stories like coming to terms with Aunt May’s death, his relationship with MJ, and tons of other stuff that happened in his absence. Peter becomes a man who has to cope with the actions that his Skrull impostor took and wakes up to the fact that his worst enemy is now the most powerful person on earth. They want Peter and MJ to break up? Have MJ be put off by the realization that she’s been living with an impostor creating a rift between her and a Peter Parker who is having a hard time processing everything that has happened. Peter becomes a bachelor again and continuity is preserved. The only good things that came out of Secret Invasion were the Dark Avengers and Secret Warriors.
Good God, I never thought of that. I was just glad it didn’t suck as bad as Civil War, but you’re right. In fact, only a very few characters actually had much fallout to deal with, especially Iron Man, who very quickly found a reason to erase his recent memories. Too convenient, that. Also missed was the chance to redeem Hank’s good name, if not literally then at least provide a little focus to flesh his feelings out amidst the grief, maybe clear the air out with his compatriots. Instead, look out! His insanity is yet again put in question when he takes the name Wasp for his own, something any idiot would know better than to do. The thing is, Marvel’s been doing a great job at action and suspense in the new mellenium, and the art has never been better (as much as I hated Civil War, the art was top notch, as I’m sure you’d all agree). It’s the interpersonal stuff that is sorely lacking.
I think they were correct to let Hank have the slap but I wish they wouldn’t treat it like he beat the woman. It also makes Wasp sound like she was a defenseless woman……..but no one talks about all the times men get slapped by women for doing something stupid as opposed to something violent.
Though I did love his Wasp outfit.
Was a good list, but Civil War is one of the greatest even in comics of all time. soooooo…super fail. good job.
To me, Civil War was a great concept with a rushed executiont, at least the main series. It’s more of a problem with the limited space to tell such a huge story. I think many, like me, think the concept was great but the story itself not so much. Add the lack of foresight by Marvel and its pretty clear why some of us think Civil War isn’t as great as it seems.
My own opinion is that those who don’t appreciate Civil War need some help. I don’t know if close reading is the issue or if moral quagmires aren’t their cup of tea but my own opinion is that Civil War is Marvel at its very best. In fact, I’m wondering what the writer considers the *best* Marvel has to offer? So, yeah, my opinion on Civil War and I know I’m late to the party.
What I haven’t seen argued is what cannot *be* argued: the number one spot. Lord, what an awful mess that was. Weak writing, weak drawing and while I don’t mind over-the-top violence there has to be a point, right? What on earth was the point of Ultimatum? What message was being sent? What part of that was supposed to fun and/or informative? A horrific reading experience that I would recommend to no one in this or any plane of existence.
I really enjoyed reading this list, by the by. Any more like it?
“but my own opinion is that Civil War is Marvel at its very best.”
um..what? i agree with the author. CW is pretty bad. is it top 10 bad? im not sure i can say that. it doesn’t make a lot of grievous mistakes (aside from the heinous treatment of Bill Foster) and has a good start, but everything else felt terribly shoehorned. characterizations went right out the window in order to advance the plot. i know a lot of people getting back into Marvel (or those starting it for the first time) start with CW and end up loving it.
this gets me back to your quote. best at what exactly? even CW fans have to admit the execution was terrible, especially at the end. even the best parts of CW have been done as well if not better in other events. you really cannot think of a better event? heck there was a great event that ran parallel to it at the time: DnA’s Annhiliation! Marvel Cosmic completely wiped the floor with anything Bendis or Millar were writing at that time.
Yeah, DnA’s cosmic saga was Marvel at its best. When it comes to CW, it wasn’t terrible but it was far from great. I don’t buy for a second that a sane Tony Stark and Reed Richards would ever desecrate a then dead Thor by creating a cyborg version of him. And Peter unmasking? After what happened to Gwen, I doubt he would openly reveal his identity to the world.
i found it amusing when RR Nova comes back to find the world a$$ backwards and heads back into space because he doesn’t want to deal with the mess especially after seeing Robbie. summed things up perfectly and solidified the new Rider for me.
Okay, you two (TheSpacePope and nu), we’ll agree to disagree on CW. I am, however, very intrigued by the DnA stuff you’re both talking about. So, from a relative rookie to the genre, forgive my ignorance–what is DnA an acronym for? Let me know and my next stop is to the local library.
DnA is an acronym for Dan (Abnett) and Andy (Lanning) the architects of what was Marvel’s space faring comics or “cosmic comics” which includes Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy, a few Inhuman minis, some Darkhawk minis and some event minis like Annihilation: Conquest, War of Kings and Realm of Kings. It’s all in trades now. Here’s the names of the trades just so you know which ones to look for. I listed them in their approximate reading order, although they may read a little off as they tend to when collected in trades. Enjoy.
- Annihilation, Vol. 1
- Annihilation, Vol. 2
- Annihilation, Vol. 3
- Annihilation: Conquest – Volume One
- Nova, Vol. 1: Annihilation – Conquest
- Annihilation: Conquest – Volume Two
- Nova, Vol. 2: Knowhere
- Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 1: Legacy
- Nova, Vol. 3: Secret Invasion
- Nova, 4: Nova Corps
- War of Kings: Road to War of Kings
- Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2: War of Kings – Book 1
- Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3: War of Kings – Book 2
- Nova, Vol. 5: War of Kings
- War of Kings: Ascension
- War of Kings
- Realm of Kings
- Nova, Vol. 6: Realm of Kings
- Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 4: Realm of Kings
- The Thanos Imperative
- Annihilators
- Annihilators: Earthfall
I’ll just say +1 to everything TheSpacePope says.
No the earth’s axis and the magnetic poles are NOT the same. Please take fifth grade science over.
Why the hell “seduced=raped”?
Is there any actual evidence of Miss Marvel being raped? It seems the text arbitrarily labels it that way even though the story does not present it as such.
And even if she was raped, why would that be necessarily bad for feminism? “Oh, you’re raped? Sorry, you can’t be a feminist icon anymore, only the pure ones can”.
Perhaps its because she eventually decided to stay with her son/father of her child/himself, assuming it was a rape?
No, it’s because she was mind controlled and unwilling to go along, and later after she was freed very clearly stated it was rape and the other Avengers were horrible for letting it happen.
Although really, it was the writer who should be blamed.
Wow, the last paragraph of the Civil War entry…
You made up everything in this parapragh…
1- Badly received? It was generally critically acclaimed and seen as one of Marvel’s best stories in any other top 10 thingy.
2- Damaged Marvel Comics? It was THE Marvel story of the 2000s
3- People refuse to forgive Iron Man for his betrayal…? What? The current Iron Man series is one Marvel’s most successful.
4- Marvel staff taking Iron Man’s side? So he’s portrayed as the villain (see #3)… but the writers took his side? What?
Dude, I get you didn’t like it, it’s your opinion. But don’t make up things just to force your point.
If it alienated you, then it alienated you, not « thousands of readers ».
3) The way Marvel made Tony Stark likable post-Civil War was to completely dismantle the Tony Stark we saw in Civil War, first by thoroughly kicking his ass (“World’s Most Wanted”) and then undoing everything he did during CW through loss of memory (” Stark: Disassembled”). Essentially, he was made popular only by erasing everything he did during CW. I think that alone says a lot about CW.
They also did a bang up job with both the writing and the art on Invincible Iron Man after CW, so that even if you hated Stark at that point, as I did, you couldn’t really turn it down. Salvador Larroca’s art is just phenomenal. It’s not simply that Stark was put through hell, it’s that he was put through well-written, QUALITY hell.
I have been a diehard Marvel fan for quite some years now and i have to tell you, alot of the stories you have listed I quite enjoyed, despite how they came to be, retcon or otherwise. To me it sounds like you personaly dont like change. You know, if there wern’t some radical ideas being thrown around, ill concieved or not, Marvel probably wouldn’t exist today, as you yourself stated in #7 Heroes Reborn. If they had kept the same overall outlook on every character, people would have been tired of the predictable plot lines and repetitive ambiace of the stories. Now, i agree there have been some displeasing issues and arcs created by some ill advised (home wrecking, bastard) writers, but those stories just pave the way and make room for amazing breakthroughs in character developement and outstanding literary concepts If put in the right hands. We all have our own opinion on the subject and thats something that no one can take away from us, so i respect your criticism. If you would like to discuss further on Marvel and maby some issues that you found you enjoyed I’d love to hear from you, till then, I’ll catchya on the flip side!
I know it’s recent, but this list needs Avengers versus X-Men. It’s hard to even find where to start.
I know it’s included in Chuck Austen’s X-Men but “The Draco” is the definitively worst moment in Marvel Comics ever. It can be argued that good things came out of these events (Yes, even Ultimatum) but nothing, nothing coming out of that story arc was good. It was all just awful, awful stuff.
I literally cried because of One More Day, not because of the drama or the loss of Aunt May, but for how much this issue shat on my image of many of the marvel heroes. Forget Peter being a selfish ass for making the deal! How is it that ALL of the greatest minds of the Marvel Universe have no idea how to heal a gunshot wound! I was expecting a retcon of the identity reveal. That was a given. But the deal with Mephesto. I face palm at the thought of it. I have to admit though, I did like “The Other” saga. Yes it was another “spidey’s back from the dead with new powers” angle, but it also explored the “spider” side of spider-man. Which is something I’d never object to really.
Civil War wasn’t really that bad. It suffers from the same problems “AvsX” does (pointless fighting and crashingly unsubtle), in in the grand scheme of things it wasn’t so bad.
I would replace that one for the Bendis-penned Avengers Dissambled and/or House of M (Given that he managed to ruin both the Avengers line and the X-men line of comics with these books, I’m suprised his name doesn’t pop up more often.)
Oh and a big “Ugh!” for the “Sins Past” caption that has Gwen in a state of “ecstacy” followed by a panel of Norman’s greasy grinning mug. The shot of Blob eating Wasp was more appealing.
I would like to point out that both Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum were both penned by Jeph Loeb. My point being that he brought down the entire Ultimate Marvel Universe, which had at least a plethora of great books and characters and was starting to develop it’s own rich cannon.
What was Jeph Loeb’s punishment for this heinous act? He’s been promoted to Executive Vice President and Head of Television at Marvel! I equate this to having some guy marry my sister, only to watch him murder her in cold blood, before deciding that he really should be married to both of my other sisters at the same time, because history never repeats it’s self.
I don’t know why Jeph Loeb hates Marvel comics, the fans, the characters, himself, or me personally, but under his watch I have seen no less than 5 of my favorite titles ruined, and 3 excellent tv series cancelled (Spectacular Spider Man, Wolverine and the X-Men, Avengers, EMH,) only to be replaced by brutally mediocre programming (Ultimate Spider-Man and the forthcoming Avengers Assemble, trust me,) if at all.
Idea for the Cracked.com creative team; The Worst Comic Creators of All Time. Easy picks include Chuck Austen, Dan Didio and Jeph Loeb.
In the meantime, I urge all fans of Marvel comics to not watch any Marvel animated series, or read any books penned by Loeb until he is finally fired for his crimes.
Going off here
Civil War…. Cap America Just giving up with the reason that to many people were getting hurt/killed? Isn’t that the reason why he was created and Fought in World War II? Also the Idea he just gives up is very unlike him. Still confused on why Iron Man and other power-suited heroes were forced to register but I don’t recall martial artists (AKA Electra, Shang-chi, The Punisher, etc) were forced to register. Martial Artists don’t have have “Super Powers”, (except Iron Fist) just a real good training. As was pointed out in the Avengers movie: you take away Iron Man’s suit and what do you have?
I was surprised the the Zombie series was not on the list. Never got into reading the story so my comments are from 3rd party info. A group of zombies kill and eat Galactus? That is like saying a group of ants eat a human that has a flames thrower hooked to a gas tanker. Possible but not very probable. Mr Fantastic infected the FF on purpose with the virus? Still trying to figure out how someone in a power-suit could get effected. Guess I assumed that the Oxygen supple system would have filtered out the virus. Not sure how wolverine’s healing ability can reject a brood implanted egg but not fight of a virus. Trying to confused how Zombies or a virus would be a threat to Cloak of Cloak & Dagger fame.
I would have liked to have seen the series be where the power suited heroes/villians team together and take over the heli-carrier as their mobile base. Would also have been neat to have them team-up with the Vampires. Perhaps looking at it as the lesser of 2 evils. Dr Doom would have made a interesting Hero/villian on the team that no one would trust but had to tolerate. They also could have brought back some one shot/minor characters(AKA Spider Boy, Forbish-man, Destiny, Leech, etc) as the Zombies would not look at them as any kind of threat or they just were able to avoid them. They also could have had the Atlantians, Skrulls, Kree, Asgardians and even possibly the Inhumans be immune to the virus and then after the Zombies were controlled/defeated the other races try to take over the world.
Sigh, Such potential all gone to waste with a badly written store.
One More Day and Civil War just killed Marvel off for me. I haven’t read a Spider-Man comic or anything by Marvel since then really.
Reading about Ultimatum it looks like i did well to leave when I did. Such a shame about Jeph Loeb, as some of my favourite story lines are written by him – Long Halloween, Hush, Spider-Man Blue, Daredevil: Yellow. Is he really that despised now?
Just found out he wrote Lost. Ignore me.
I have not read Ultimatum but really want to considering all these characters die and in such a violent way. No offense to anyway but are we 6 years old, I have been reading comics for about 25 years now, i am in my early 30′s and i am just flat out tired of the same bad books. Every month its the same thing super hero or hero’s face off in a unrealistic manner and save the day unharmed and the villain is either unharmed and gets away or unharmed and is captured. Its getting tired for me. I love the unrealistic stuff that’s the point its a fantasy, however all this fighting and never a causality. In my opinion marvels best series ever was the 95 Age of Apocalypse where so many characters where different and killed off, ultimately they all died except for a handful. If the Ultimate universe was supposed to end why not end it in a fashion that truly ends the series by killing off villains and heroes. no one lives happily ever after, but like i said i haven’t read it so maybe it was bad writing, maybe it could have been written a little different with the same outcome and everyone would have loved it. But hey that;s just me
I are switch most of the list but Civil War and Sins Past should not be on here. There are much worse stories
World War Hulk
Secret Wars II
Fear Itself
Tanarus
The First X-Men
Anytime JeanGrey Returns from te Dead
Avengers Dissasembled
New Avengers
The Heroic Age
Siege
Shadowland
Black Panther: Man Without Fear
sorry but sins past should definetly be there, they ruined a character for shock value and a great majority of spidey fans and even the writer wants to retcon that crappy story, sorry but sins past is a horrible story that should never have happened
I don’t think Civil war was entirely terrible in concept. The problem is the execution that had the pro-registration side winning despite being villified and the majority of the fanbase hating him winning. At the end of it I saw Tony as a smug snake kind if Douche. That woman who yelled at him was full of crap. Nitro was the one responcible not the New Warriors. I honestly feel One More Day should be #1 as it crapped over years of continuity and had Spider-Man go against taking responsibility.
Overall, I agree with most of it. My opinion in Civil War was that it was a sound concept, and had some good parts, but overall was handled poorly. I do agree with an earlier comment that World War Hulk should have been on the list. In addition, if you plan to make a worst moments in DC, look no further then when they tried to retcon the source of the Flash’s powers. Introducing a random wizard who claims to have given him his powers was stupid. The fact that this retcon was NEVER mentioned agein is evidence enough.
10. Yeah, the Danvers birth was bad, but it was just another bad story amidst 2 decades of bad stories. The Avengers haven’t lived up to their potential since the last time Gene Colan was the regular artist. Since the 1980s, that is.
9. Spider Man was long since dead as a concept when this came out. The Clone saga was an attempt to remind fans of his glory days while cashing in on this over-the-top reprise. It wasn’t bad, it just wasn’t well done.
8.Same here about 2 decades of bad comics. In fact, it was so bad that I personally avoided every single one of these titles like the plague, and stand here vindicated for it.
7. Heroes Reborn wasn’t that bad. I’m sorry, but compared to all the rest of the crap Marvel was putting out in the 90s, this stuff was actually decent. We all knew it would be undone in the end, and meantime it was entertaining. You’re right, the 90s were a dark time for Marvel, but this was one of the bright spots.
6. The X-Men have been dead to me since Chris Claremont killed the entire team off, replaced them with a new cast, and nothing changed. The tone and feel of the book remained the same. I applaud Claremont for making the team a sensation, but his time was done and I was gone, so nothing Austen did could hurt me.
5. Lets trash the memory of Gwen Stacy.
Hey y’know what? Let’s not and say we did.
The very idea of this story is offensive to me. I think Mephisto made a deal with Osborn for this to happen, but Peter isn’t the intended victim. We are.
4. Yes, Civil War was an ill-conceived notion. All the more so since the idea seemed to be to make the entire Marvel universe seem more like the world of the X-Men, with the rest of the heroes hunted and feared like the mutants have always been. And since I don’t like X-titles, I especially hated it. The artwork was good, though.
3. Okay, bringing Mephisto into Spidey’s life at this late date seems like a dumb idea. Having read the story, I know it for a fact. If you carry it further, though, the devil’s influence would explain a few things, such as: Why Gwen is suddenly shown acting like Peter means nothing to her. Also why MJ goes from being the girl who ignored her boyfriend Harry to deal alone with his overdose while his mind was snapping, the girl who played head games with her soon-to-be husband, telling Flash they were split up so she could sleep with him, to the perfect, loyal wife. In fact, during their entire marriage she seemed more like Gwen Stacy than Mary Jane. The perfect marriage? Never mind. As a concept, Spider Man was the only title that couldn’t survive the retirement of Stan Lee as a writer.
But I still think Osborn made a pact. MJ and GW must have traded places, switched from just before marriage and death, so that Mephisto really was taunting Peter with the truth when he said MJ was his true love. How deceptive he can be in his honesty.
2. If you avoid bad artwork like I do, then Ultimates 3 is no problem. I gave it a few issues, then dropped the title when it failed to deliver. Ultimate Avengers was better, though the offhand way Spider-Man was killed off in its pages put me forever off on Bendis as a writer. That, and many, many Avengers stories that amounted to nothing. Yeah, I know he didn’t write Ultimate Avengers, but it was clearly his idea to kill off Ultimate Parker this way.
1. Ultimatum, yyyeeah. Couldnâ??t agree more. Actually, I can. Because you forgot to mention how they turned Ultimate Reed Richards into a mass murderer, beginning with the murder of his own parents. The same parents he once built the Ultimate Fantasticar to visit, a gesture that further endeared Ultimate Susan Storm toward him. Does anyone really think THAT Reed Richards was capable of parricide or mass murder? Neither do I.
I suggest that instead of the Danvers story and Heroes Reborn, Demon In A Bottle and Secret Wars make a better fit and, by extension, and also because of the truly bad artwork, Secret Wars II. Turning Iron Man into an alcoholic might make sense, but it was too abrupt and too poorly executed. And Secret Wars had to have been the absolute worst idea ever to cross Jim Shooter’s mind, and his mind being in charge of Marvel in the 80s is what led to the creative wasteland of the 90s. That’s why he was fired as Marvel’s sole editor-in-chief.
Another better fit would also come from the dark depths of Shooter’s reign: the Fall of Hank Pym. I guess poor old Hank wasn’t selling comics well enough. Not surprising, given the quality of artist usually assigned to him. So what did they do? They turned this founding Avenger into a wife beater. Frankly, I have no clue what purpose this served. This isn’t something that happens to just anyone. This shows a weakness of character that is nothing less than despicable. They took a perfectly good hero and trashed his name forever in order to sell comics, and since the comic was so poorly done they didn’t even manage to do that right. Way to go, guys.
Wait, when did Mary Jane sleep with Flash?
Sorry, I was reading between the lines. At the very least she seemed to want Peter to wonder if she had. This was long ago, maybe not far from the time of Betty and Ned’s wedding.
Flash told Pete nothing happened, but MJ had told Flash a lie about her and Pete splitting up, so it always seemed strange to me that Pete just took Flash’s word for it and that was it.
Is it wrong of me to think that playing with Peter’s emotions like that is as bad as actually sleeping with another guy? Probably. But we all know that Peter is basically honest, other than this huge secret he was keeping. Which is why I never warmed up to the girl that became Mrs. Parker.
Today it seems to be the belief that she knew his secret and that that was what was really behind her behavior. But if that was so, why didn’t she confront him about it long before she did?
Ahh, never mind. I’ve been up and down this with others, and I’ve come to the conclusion that MJ can be forgiven, all things considered. That situation with Gwen’s clone alone would freak anyone out, so it should be no surprise if she tried to back out or sabotage the relationship.
At this point in time, Civil War is more on the money then ever. Weapon registration due to the killing of a lot of children, sound familiar…
That being said, it was a comic that I (still) like to read, but I never LIKED it…
Like many of the big company crossovers, the idea is solid, but the execution (and subsequent milking of said crossover…) got from bad to worse.
The cloning of Thor and killing of Goliath was clearly a vehicle to turn Tony Stark and his pro-registration gang in the bad light, clearly to pander the majority of the fans because they choose Cap’s side. Now instead of a comic that showed us both sides, they just made in into the usual good vs bad thing. And the worst part was that the “bad” guys won, in an extremely unsatisfying ending.
Civil War is kind of like the worst dump you have ever taken. You don’t want to remember it, but it’s always there in the back of your mind, when you are on the crapper.
I also agree with most entries. Heroes reborn was terrible, the same crap Image made was now ruining Marvel icons. I never stopped hating Jim Lee and, especially, Rob Liefeld after that. Ultimates 3 was a let-down, relying mostly on an artist that is clearly over his peak. Clone Saga was a big joke, shame to see them still milking it with the new Scarlet Spider series. And One More Day? Let’s just say I won’t forgive the Marvel staff for messing with the most lovable character in comics, Spider-Man…
I actually liked Ultimatum. It was bad, but it was very “Ultimate”! The Ultimate universe was getting in a rut, and Ultimatum actually tried to shake things up. Killing off lots of big characters was a stupid move though, especially Wolverine. The Ultimate reboot is however a joke, every single issue since Ultimatum has been a let-down.
All in all, Marvel is still the house of ideas. It’s just that most of those ideas are crap nowadays…
“All in all, Marvel is still the house of ideas. Itâ??s just that most of those ideas are crap nowadaysâ?¦”
Read more: http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-moments-in-marvel-comics.php#ixzz2Otuwlnp9
Brilliant summation.
This list needs to be updated to include the plotless Avengers vs X-men.
AvX had a plot, the problem is the plot was based around Scott Summers paranoia and martyr complex and they tried to make it seem like both sides were to blame when really it was just Cyclops being a giant sack of crazy.
So instead of making it clear that the problem was Cyclops being insane, they pretended there was an actual difference in the goals and beliefs of both sides. There wasn’t, cyclops was the guy who complained about living in “a world that hates and fears us” right after getting the presidential medal of freedom and a parade in his honor, and most people pretty clearly saw there was no difference or reason for sane people to fight.
No Cyclops was right. All he was guilty of is being a man who can’t be bought.
The marvel world had stopped hating and fearing mutants, thanks to cyclops paranoia he pursued a course that has once again made the mutants targets of hate. Cyclops’ arrogance and distrust sabotaged the dream of coexistence.
Just because things worked out for the mutants in the end doesn’t mean Cyclops was right. Cyclops original plan, in which he ostracized the scarlet witch and tried to get hope to be the host of a full-strength phoenix without training, would have killed millions of humans. It was reckless and stupid.
The only reason the world stopped fearing mutants was because 99.9% of them were eliminated by M-Day. And even with their vastly reduced number, they were still feared. Since M-Day, they’ve had to deal with new sentinels created by O*N*E to police them, the Reavers and the Hellfire club trying to eliminate the last remaining mutants and a full scale attack on their headquarters by Bastion and his human cronies that resulted in more mutant deaths. What was Cyclops to do? Sit back and watch as their enemies cut down their numbers one by one. His actions were ones of a desperate man trying to protect his people. Sure, his actions were rash but I didn’t see the Avengers trying to help them. Cyclop’s actions are no different than Truman and the atomic bomb. He weighed his options and took the one that could help now. nd in the end, he was right. He saved mutantkind. It’s funny how everyone is up in arms because he killed Xavier but wasn’t it worth it to ensure mutantkind ‘s survival?
And after the attack by Bastion, he was given a medal by the president, supported by the avengers and the people of San Francisco, and treated as a hero.
He responded by throwing the medal into the sea and whining more and more about how everyone hates him. Rather than make ANY effort to expand on those good feelings and integrate more, he isolated further and further.
And then when the avengers DID come to help, he shot Captain America with eye beams and started ranting about how all his enemies were trying to kill everyone. His paranoia and distrust of non-mutants – the very bigotry he claims to fight against – is what started the war. Humans don’t hate and fear mutants, Cyclops hates and fears humans.
Most importantly, Cyclops’ plan didn’t save mutants. Tony Stark’s plan did.
Hope was barely able to control a weakened phoenix with training and help from the scarlet witch, if Cyclops had his way a million people would have died, project: Wideawake would have been activated, mutants would have been herded into camps and branded, and everything would have been so much worse. That’s not speculation – that’s the alternate future Bishop is from.
Cyclops turned from a bland, arrogant kid into a paranoid madman. I’m so glad he’s not in charge anymore, about time.
I disagree with you on why “One More Day” is terrible. Although it is terrible. For me, Peter Parker’s choices are the only ones that make sense. He is giving up his own happiness to save the life of someone else, that is totally in character.
However, he first asks a number of people to help save Aunt May’s life – many of whom should be able to do so – and they all refuse. Why?
And what, exactly, does Mephisto get out of the whole arrangement? Particularly when the deal is expanded to “everyone forgets that Peter is Spiderman too so that Peter is happy”?
That’s a whole lot of reality alteration for very little gain.
Civil War are you made one of the most successful, most grounded, most epic comic book event of all time? What it doing on this list?
Secret war maybe or at least the final issue of amazing spiderman